# What's so bad about "Starship Troopers"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 1, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888 "2003-09-01T00:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/21 "2003-09-01T04:11:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tim R. Mortiss \* > \*\*Sorry, but I must disagree. I’ve been a fan of the book for 20 years, and I thought the movie was lots of fun. Not totally true to the philosophy of the book, but I’d hardly call it a 180. The fascism was apparent in both book and film. > > But, all that is trivia. It had Denise Richards! Can’t act, but oooooh baby! You can pilot my shuttle anytime!!..Timmy > > P.S. - I agree with the defrosted turkey comment. Hilarious. \*\* Facism in the book? Huh? RAH was an ardent _anti-facist_! In his _ **Expanded Universe** _ he goes into great detail about the structure of the society and how it _wasn’t_ fascist at all. His mindset when he wrote the book was that sooner or later all democracies fail, and his goal was to attempt to find a way in which a democracy could _survive_ without failing. His solution was to create a society which required government service of some kind (be it teacher, buerocrat, or soldier) in exchange for the right to vote. His idea was that if people had to _earn_ the right to vote, they might not be so willing to take it for granted and vote for the guy who promised them “bread and circuses.” ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/22 "2003-09-01T05:30:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Selkie \* > \*\*I not only don’t think it’s bad, I think it’s darkly hilarious and, most importantly, I think it _intended_ to be funny. It gets much funnier every time I watch it. Having not read the book until _after_ watching the movie, I see the two as completely separate entities sharing only a name. \*\* Verhoeven had the same thing going in _RoboCop_ (which is, though, a far better film). Both movies are intended to be humorous. But people usually equate action violence with a certain level of seriousness. I think the connection to the book has given this movie a raw deal. Verhoeven had this film more or less planned out before he acquired the ST license, and he openly admits that he didn’t even finish the book. He wasn’t trying to bring “Starship Troopers” to the big screen. He wanted to parody WWII-style propaganda (he grew up in occupied Holland). ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/23 "2003-09-01T06:33:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > **Facism in the book? Huh? RAH was an ardent _anti-facist_!** RAH had a very long writing career (and a pretty long life, in general). And during that long career, his attitude and philosophy underwent sweeping changes, as a close observer of his work will note. He was quite the fascist when he wrote Troopers (not that there’s anything wrong with that!), and he had morphed into quite the commie liberal by the time he penned “Stranger In A Strange Land” (not that there’s anything wrong with THAT, either!). I wouldn’t put much stock into his latter-day reconstruction of his earlier works, since he was a very different person by then. That said, I appreciate his writing from all of his periods, since he states and supports all cases and opinions with cogent and intelligent arguments, both the ones that I agree with, and the ones that I do not. I suspect that Heinlein himself would rather have readers listen to his assertions, and respect his logic and arguments, than have them blindly agree with him on any specific opinion. But maybe that’s just me…Timmy ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/24 "2003-09-01T07:22:44Z")
Because that guy shoved a giant dental tool into that alien with the vagina face! YEESH!!! I try to avoid porn like that and then it shows up in a sci-fi movie! Oh, and it totally wasn’t like the book. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/25 "2003-09-01T07:26:45Z")
I cant take the film seriously and that’s why I like it. It’s just a comedy and parody on fascism/militarism to me into which every improbability and bad war film cliche has been stuffed. Its great! I love it when Denise Richards is talking to the rival for her affections, who is in the high school football team and he says he is going off to the Fleet Academy in a few days where she too is scheduled to go. When she arrives, he is her instructor despite having got there maybe a week before her! If I was seeking a serious rendition of the book perhaps I’d be upset but I never was a fan and it just seemed like tripe when I read it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Babbington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Mr.Babbington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Babbington)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/26 "2003-09-01T07:30:47Z")
**THEY SUCKED HIS BRAINS OUT!!!** [Want to know more?](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120201/quotes) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/27 "2003-09-01T07:34:43Z")
That so many astute SDMBers are mis-interpreting the movie as anything other than an acidly comedic parody of the source material, so over the top and obvious it smacks you repeatedly in the face with a giant facist rubber chicken, is baffling. The humans were supposed to be the bad guys, the bugs were the oppressed victims of human aggression. Verhoeven has said as much several times. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/28 "2003-09-01T07:36:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tim R. Mortiss \* > \*\*RAH had a very long writing career (and a pretty long life, in general). And during that long career, his attitude and philosophy underwent sweeping changes, as a close observer of his work will note. He was quite the fascist when he wrote Troopers (not that there’s anything wrong with that!), and he had morphed into quite the commie liberal by the time he penned “Stranger In A Strange Land” (not that there’s anything wrong with THAT, either!). I wouldn’t put much stock into his latter-day reconstruction of his earlier works, since he was a very different person by then. > > That said, I appreciate his writing from all of his periods, since he states and supports all cases and opinions with cogent and intelligent arguments, both the ones that I agree with, and the ones that I do not. I suspect that Heinlein himself would rather have readers listen to his assertions, and respect his logic and arguments, than have them blindly agree with him on any specific opinion. But maybe that’s just me…Timmy \*\* Uh, have you read _Exanded Universe_? Because Heinlein gives the history of writing _Stranger in a Strange Land_, and he was working on it at roughly the same time he was writing _Starship Troopers_. As Heinlein details in _several_ of his books, he’d plotted out his “Future History” in advance of his writing. Basically, Heinlein knew at the start of his career where he wanted to be by the end of it. Heinlein also was quite the Republican by the time he died, so calling him a Commie Liberal is so wildly inaccurate as to defy description. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/29 "2003-09-01T08:03:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*That so many astute SDMBers are mis-interpreting the movie as anything other than an acidly comedic parody of the source material, so over the top and obvious it smacks you repeatedly in the face with a giant facist rubber chicken, is baffling. > > The humans were supposed to be the bad guys, the bugs were the oppressed victims of human aggression. Verhoeven has said as much several times. \*\* Oh, I got that **astro** , and I _wasn’t_ amused. It’s like _Armageddon_, some people love it, I hate it. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/30 "2003-09-01T12:06:12Z")
I am amused by the idea the trainee of the Intergalictic Marine Corps got a pool table in their barracks. An they seem to be trained inside, like somethingot of Rollerball. ---
**Author:** ![DrNick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DrNick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrNick)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/31 "2003-09-01T13:36:39Z")
O My God. I’ve never heard this perspective before. i thought Starship Troopers was a very amusing black comedy/almost spoof, whilst the novel was just awful. ---
**Author:** ![dinoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/32 "2003-09-01T13:57:24Z")
I agree about the black-comedy thing for the movie though I still thought I was overcharged at the box-office, it just was too silly. But the novel was completely different. I would argue that the movie more closely followed a book by John Steakly called ‘Armor’. In fact after viewing the movie, I couldn’t believe (after so much in common with that book) that the producers (or whoever names movies) got away with calling the movie “starship troopers”. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/33 "2003-09-01T14:06:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dinoboy \* > \*\*I agree about the black-comedy thing for the movie though I still thought I was overcharged at the box-office, it just was too silly. But the novel was completely different. > > I would argue that the movie more closely followed a book by John Steakly called ‘Armor’. In fact after viewing the movie, I couldn’t believe (after so much in common with that book) that the producers (or whoever names movies) got away with calling the movie “starship troopers”. \*\* Please…Armor was a GREAT book. I would be just as pissed if they based Verhoeven’s travesty on Armor as I was that they named it “Starship Troopers.” ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/34 "2003-09-01T14:30:47Z")
“So much in common” with _Armor_? Inasmuch as there were scenes with great teeming masses of alien bugs, and contained characters that spoke using words spelled with both vowels and consonants, I suppose. Otherwise, one of the more baffling comparisons I’ve seen in quite awhile. Still, it occurs to me that a “faithful” adaptation of _Starship Troopers_ would be a 3 hour plus epic, in which at least 2 hours would be taken up with long continuous close-up shots of grizzled veteran one-armed teachers giving lectures. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/35 "2003-09-01T14:48:30Z")
> [@](#): > > In my book, Starship Troopers gets put in the same category as Wing Commander, as a goofy teen-oriented sci-fi action flick, though I think Wing Commander was the more interesting of the two. Blasphamy! Starship Troopers is not quite as good as Verhoeven’s other sci-fi classics, Robocop and Total Recall, but I would hardly put it in the same catagory as Wing Commander. Any movie that stars the powerhouse duo of Freddie Prinze Jr and Mathew Lilliard (or either one separately for that matter) automatically gets two thumbs down. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/36 "2003-09-01T15:19:48Z")
Starship Troopers is a brilliant, brilliant film, by a director who–you heard it here first, write this down–will someday be acknowledged on a critical level with Hitchcock and Sirk. Straship Troopers is a vicious indictment of American imperialism; a critique of Bush’s Iraq policy made WAY ahead of its time. I’ve seen the movie probly 6 times, and just recently watched it again with the commentary track turned on (Director and Screenwriter in attendance), and the film was intended at as cartoonish satire on fascism from its very inception. My suspicion that the film’s style was inspired–practically dictated–by the fascist celebrations of Leni Refenstahl, and the gung-ho propaganda of US pro-war films of the 40s, was confirmed. THe screenwriter and Verhoeven watched a bunch of US propaganda films and Refenstahl films while they were working on ST, and all the dark satire you see in that film is 100% the point. They quoted a Newsweek review, that said something like, “You might come away from this film thinking that it’s message is ‘War makes fascists of us all,’ but you’d be wrong: it’s just about rocket ships and giant bugs.” But of course, their intended message was exactly and explicitly “War makes fascists of us all”; it’s unfortunate, for whatever reason, that so few people have understood this. I think it’s reputation will grow over time; it’ll probably have to wait for the French to reconsider it, like they did . . . yep, Hitchcock and Sirk. Hitchcock was seen as a Hollywood hack by America critics, who finally jumped on the bandwagon after the French showed them the error of their ways. It’ll take something like that, but Verhoeven will eventually receive the same reappraisal. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/37 "2003-09-01T16:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*Starship Troopers is a brilliant, brilliant film, by a director who–you heard it here first, write this down–will someday be acknowledged on a critical level with Hitchcock and Sirk. > \*\* ROFLMAO!!! Omigod! Stop please! You’re killing me! My sides…aidez moi… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/38 "2003-09-01T16:32:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RikWriter \* > \*\* > 3. If the story isn’t a propoganda piece, if it’s just an action flick, it fails because it is an incredibly stupid, poorly thought-through action flick. A society that can travel faster than light but it lacks such 20th-21st century technology as unmanned drones for intelligence, fucking ARTILLERY, tanks or even mortars? Tactics that basically involve sending lightly-armed and armored infantry into a meat grinder? Puh-lease. I’ve seen more intelligent action flicks starring Michael fucking Dudikoff. > \*\* This is the movie’s most implausable crime, IMHO: In addition to the above: 1. No hand grenades smaller than your thigh. Big ass grenades must be kept in an inconvenient rucksack. 2. Body armor that looks like something rejected from “Fallout”. Totally useless against aliens, fails to protect against their own weapons too. 3. So far in the future, everyone walks. 4. Guns go from wimpy sputtering assault rifle immediately to mini-nuke. hello? economy of scale anyone? I did enjoy the Roughnecks series. That seemed to be written by someone who was more of a fan of the book. (yay! Powered armor!) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/39 "2003-09-01T16:48:33Z")
The marines from _Aliens_ would have kicked their asses. Anyhoo… I was a little surprised that the movie quoted the book extensively at times, and then made no effort to explain what was going on. Aside from a single reference to “sovereign franchise” during the oath, the movie left out (or at best vaguely hinted at) the book’s main point: a term of government service as a requirement for the vote. The movie also went out of its way to alter some elements in order to increase the fascist satire. Making almost all of the characters white, for example, even though the main character in the book was Filipino, played up the “Hitler Youth” aspect. And for some reason, the main characters’ hometown was moved to Buenos Aires, contradicting the book as well as implying that clean-cut white people will eventually push aside Latins. Verhoeven can _claim_ he’s ridiculing fascist aspects in the book, but it turns out many of those elements weren’t in the book in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888/40 "2003-09-01T16:55:42Z")
My question…how can a bug aim his assgoo at spaceships that are outside the atmosphere and orbiting the planet? And considering the speed you need to be going to hit exit velocity, wouldn’t the assgoo destroy the bug’s ass? Anyway, Starship Troopers is a bad, bad movie, but very enjoyable in its badness. It’s a future MST movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-starship-troopers/198888.md?page=3)