# What's so bad about the French? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2001, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058 "2001-02-11T20:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/21 "2001-02-12T04:10:57Z")
And if I thought you were going to take it seriously, I wouldn’t have done it. And to think I almost didn’t use the smilie emoticon, thinking, “Gee, I don’t need to sully a funny post by belaboring the obvious,” but eventually I decided on using it for the benefit of people who DIDN’T KNOW ME. I didn’t think you were on that list. Sorry for the misunderstanding… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/22 "2001-02-12T04:56:44Z")
Stoidy: {Force on} “This little one is not worth the trouble. Come, let me buy you a drink” {Force off} ‘Course, if this Force stuff really worked on women,…would Obi Wan be stuck out in the middle of the stinkin’ desert? ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/23 "2001-02-12T09:54:52Z")
I have just returned from my first trip to France, Paris to be exact. Being an American that has heard numerous stories about the horrors of the French attitude toward foreigners in general and Americans in particular, I definately had a chip on my shoulder. I even went to the lengths of memorizing some fairly rude French phrases for the inevitable confrontations. Anyway, I was there for almost a week. Result? Every French person I met, without exception, was both polite and as helpful as they could be. Needless to say, I had to have a serious re-think of my position toward them. As far as a guy burning down McDonalds so he can keep family/neighborhood restaurants going, he has my sympathy. The thought of closing those places and replacing them with McFood is enough to drive anyone nuts. _S_ Regards. Testy. ---
**Author:** ![Darqangelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@Darqangelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darqangelle)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/24 "2001-02-12T12:58:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cyn \* > \*\*I have been to Paris and it is different than my little hometown in California. I liked a lot of things I saw and didn’t like some things I saw. Some Frenchmen were very nice, others very rude, others totally indifferent to me. I can only surmise that the reason some people verbalize animosity toward the French is that they are different from the people in their hometowns. \*\* Heh, that’s funny, because… I have been to California (L.A., Frisco, S.D.) and these cities are different than the few cities I have called “home” over the years. I liked a lot of the things that I saw and didn’t like some other things that I saw. Some Californians were very nice, others very rude, others totally indifferent to me. …hmmm. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Darqangelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@Darqangelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darqangelle)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/25 "2001-02-12T13:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Studoggie \* > \*\*Nothing is wrong with the French except: > > 1. They don’t use deodorant.\*\* This is a French thing? Buddy, have I got tales for you: Ever been stuck in an elevator, in Phoenix, during a particularly warm day in June? I wish more people DID use deoderant… > [@](#): > > **2. They piss in the streets** New York, Los Angeles, Seattle… > [@](#): > > **3. The women are extremely overrated** New York, Los Angeles, Seattle… > [@](#): > > **4. Celine Dion (French-Canadians)** … …Okay, I’ll give you that one 🙂 > [@](#): > > **5. They outlaw many thing written in English in order to protect their dying language** Except business. No business in Europe with intentions of exapnding internationally will survive without adopting English as a (at least secondary) language. > [@](#): > > \*\*6. Did I mention that they actually piss in the streets? I mean c’mon. \*\* You’re saying this as if Paris was the only city guilty of it. I mean c’mon… ---
**Author:** ![dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/26 "2001-02-12T13:31:35Z")
I know a little french and I think the problem is that it has a small vocabulary and hence people tend to gesture and shout more which we think is rude but its just they can’t use an alternative word so they SHOUT it. Some are nice, some are not. Parisians are usually rude but then so are londoners etc. its a BIG city thing. Its ok down south where i holiday, and the women, oh la la… under rated, not likely, pretty and short, ace ! p.s. see chocolat, juliette binoche, ahhhh luv ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/27 "2001-02-12T15:32:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Studoggie \* > **4. Celine Dion (French-Canadians)** Hey! French-Canadians and French cannot be made into the same thing. If we were to start complaining about French-Canadians, we could have a WHOLE LIST of valid complaints, while all the French people I’ve met are really nice people. Okay, exaggerating a bit about the French-Canadians. How about just insulting the French-Canadian government? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/28 "2001-02-12T15:44:59Z")
I don’t know. I’ve been to Paris and since I got laid by a really hot French guy, I gotta say the people there were friendly! 😃 On the pro side, the French make terrific cheese, wine, and movies. They gave us Voltaire, Diderot, Racine, Moliere, Corneille, Duras, Sartre, Camus (OK, French Algerian), and the Divine Marquis. On the negative side, 1. The French have nuked the shit out of French Polynesia. 2. They bombed the Rainbow Warrior in 1985. 3. They support unsavory governments in Africa so they have somebody they can order about. 4. They devalued the CFA in 1996(?), causing a geat deal of economic hardship for citizens of CFA member nations. 5. They helped the Germans round up Jews for deportation to the death camps in WWII. ---
**Author:** ![kiffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/d78d45/32.png) [@kiffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiffa)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/29 "2001-02-12T15:53:47Z")
Ever seen the movie Ridicule? It is so typically French in that it is cool to be rude and feel superior. This really clashes up against the American approach to life that consists of “there is always a solution to any problem; you need to be open and enterprising enough to find it”. So what do you get when a French person and an American clash? A carefully coiffed and stylishly coutured standard size French poodle staring down his long nose at a oafishly friendly Golden Labrador that bounces all over the place. Each needs to smell each other’s butt and realize that shit basically smells the same… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/30 "2001-02-12T21:09:30Z")
Thomas Frank in his book [One Market Under God](http://culturevulture.net.cnchost.com/Books/OneMarketUnderGod.htm) makes some interesting points about the portrayal of France and the French in American media. He notes that one of the most powerful driving forces in today’s media is “market populism” (which may be loosely categorized as one of the various forms of hype designed to encourage you to spend, or invest, your money in ways that may or may not be beneficial to you but will be very beneficial to the hype-ers). Market populism relies heavily on the notion that commercial markets, democracy, liberty, and happiness are all basically the same thing, so **any** restrictions on markets are automatically bad, whereas the firms putting out the hype are the real defenders of freedom and self-fulfillment for all the “little people”. Now the French tend to have a much more cynical view about markets than we do, and their economy and culture still reserve a much larger role for state sponsorship and oversight than ours do (as per all the previous posts about French economic policy, etc. etc.). This, of course, has its advantages and its disadvantages, but from a market-populist perspective, what you want to do is get people focusing only on the disadvantages, which will encourage them to be even more gung-ho about unfettered commercial markets in comparison. So French-bashing has become a not insignificant aspect of market-populist hype: Frank provides dozens of advertising and PR examples where a caricature of snobbish, rigid, elitist, bureaucratic, haughty French society is used as a foil to the freewheeling, egalitarian, independent, market-loving “American way” that naturally embraces whatever it is that the PR is trying to sell. Of course, there are lots of other reasons why various people hate the French—I’ve noticed, for one thing, that there seems to be a special subspecies of anti-French animosity among some Italian-Americans, who may feel irritated that the French so often seem to get the credit for being the high priests of High Culture in food, wine, literature, art, etc., while Italy gets overlooked. But if Frank is right (and I think he makes a good case), at least part of the reason why Americans dislike the French is because market-populist hype uses anti-French imagery in its ceaseless campaign to sell us stuff. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/31 "2001-02-12T23:58:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > 4. They devalued the CFA in 1996(?), causing a geat deal of economic hardship for citizens of CFA member nations. The devaluation was a positive move. An overvalued currency suppressed exports, makes imports cheaper and otherwise distorts the economy. Essentially, previously, the French were subsidizing their pet elites consumption habits. True, some imports such as medicinal supplies caused immediate hardship, but the over valued currency was (and continues as the CFA continues to be over-valued) suppressing the development of local ability to mfg. (In re Vietnam, no the USA could not have won. Think carefully about what “winning” would have meant… Think about the PRC, think about the meaning of genocide. It’s called losing by “winning”.) I knew there were good reasons why I don’t care for Texans. Should hear how they butcher Arabic. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/32 "2001-02-13T00:22:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satan \* > \*\*Sorry for the misunderstanding… \*\* We are completely good. (Move along, folks, nothing to see here…) Master Elucidator: All is well. Satan is our friend. ---
**Author:** ![dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2001, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/33 "2001-02-13T19:46:35Z")
Without the french we wouldn’t have those cool little coffee maker thingies ( mokka ? ) which look really cool in even a small apartment. We wouldn’t have all those films without special effects that actually show life instead of some big adventure. We wouldn’t have those shots of topless actresses for no reason whatsoever except to er, make people go see the films. Croissants and coffee for breakfast etc. Odd music. Paris South of france. Lots of good & cheap wine ( you have to visit to try it, most wines do not really travel well ). need i go on ? Ok, they have some bad points, but you gotta look at both sides. ---
**Author:** ![berdollos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@berdollos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/berdollos)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2001, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/34 "2001-02-13T23:01:06Z")
The French have many good qualities. One is, “They are frank!” They say what they think and think what they say. Americans are always mincing their words, pulling their punches, being “nice” and bland. We are too sensitive and take honest communication for insults. We are thin-skinned. The French are better communicators that we are. Berdollos ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2001, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/35 "2001-02-13T23:19:51Z")
The dislike of the French seemed to have mostly become a joke, with not that many people taking it seriously. It sudden became a big political thing, with the main catalyst being when France refused to allow Reagan to fly over to hit Khadaffi, To a lot of people France instantly became a real enemy, and since then, I havn’t seen it die down a whole lot. ---
**Author:** ![fatherjohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b2d939/32.png) [@fatherjohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatherjohn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/36 "2001-02-14T01:09:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolfman \* > \*\*The dislike of the French seemed to have mostly become a joke, with not that many people taking it seriously. It sudden became a big political thing, with the main catalyst being when France refused to allow Reagan to fly over to hit Khadaffi, To a lot of people France instantly became a real enemy, and since then, I havn’t seen it die down a whole lot. \*\* :rolleyes: France != Libya ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/37 "2001-02-14T17:04:45Z")
What a constuctive post fatherjohn. quick history lesson. [http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/el\_dorado\_canyon.htm](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/el_dorado_canyon.htm) > [@](#): > > Planning was even further compounded when the French refused to grant authority to overfly France. This refusal > increased the distance of the flight route from Great Britain to Tripoli by about 1300 nautical miles each way, added 6-7 hours of flight time for the pilots and > crews, and forced a tremendous amount of additional refueling support from tanker aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/38 "2001-02-14T19:50:46Z")
They like…no, let’s not pussy foot around, they _admire_ Jerry Lewis. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/39 "2001-02-15T12:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolfman \* > > > [@](#): > > > > Planning was even further compounded when the French refused to grant authority to overfly France. This refusal increased the distance of the flight route from Great Britain to Tripoli by about 1300 nautical miles each way, added 6-7 hours of flight time for the pilots and > > crews, and forced a tremendous amount of additional refueling support from tanker aircraft. > > \*\* So? They disagreed with the rationale of the attack. Perfectly within their rights. We’re going to sulk about this? I dearly hope this is not a real reason. ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058/40 "2001-02-15T14:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*They like…no, let’s not pussy foot around, they _admire_ Jerry Lewis. > :rolleyes: \*\* The Master has something to say on that subject. (and love Slug’s pic) [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/991001.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/991001.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-the-french/54058.md?page=1)