# What's so fascinating about Hitler what-ifs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 14, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711 "2012-10-14T19:07:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/1 "2012-10-14T19:07:01Z")
Spend enough time in GQ and you’ll start noticing threads sprouting almost weekly on the topic of “What if Hitler had…”, asking what if Hitler had gone here, done this, not done that. General consensus seems to be, if Hitler had not abandoned bombing British airfields, if he hadn’t declared war on the US, if he had gone for the Ukraine and left Moscow and Leningrad, two things would be the case. a) if he’d done all that he wouldn’t have been Hitler, b) he’d still have lost the war. Why aren’t there more threads on what the Japanese might have done to win their theatre of war? Some of the Japanese military themselves seem to have been sure from the start that it was a lost cause, do all alternate historians feel the same way? Is there something particularly fascinating about the Nazis that just makes us want to try and understand them more? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/2 "2012-10-14T19:37:39Z")
There have been several threads about Japan-centered what-if’s. If the Germany-centered threads outnumber them, I think it’s just a reflection of Europe being more central to Western society than East Asia. Plus historical figures like Hitler, Stalin, and Churchill draw attention to the European War. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/3 "2012-10-14T20:25:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There have been several threads about Japan-centered what-if’s. > > If the Germany-centered threads outnumber them, I think it’s just a reflection of Europe being more central to Western society than East Asia. Plus historical figures like Hitler, Stalin, and Churchill draw attention to the European War. I disagree. What’s morbidly fascinating about the Third Reich is just how radical the Nazi regime would have been had it survived and thrived. Eugenics, a race-cult based on tin foil hat mysticism, industrialized genocide and an ultimate goal of dominating the entire human species and the planet Earth. The fictional Draka are basically Nazis Who Won. By contrast, I’ve never heard anything to suggest that the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere would have been particularly worse than the Ottoman Empire at it’s peak. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/4 "2012-10-14T23:18:43Z")
I wonder what kind of thread Hitler would start in GD if he were around today? ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/5 "2012-10-15T08:51:41Z")
And what username he would have picked? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/6 "2012-10-15T10:23:28Z")
And how often he’d be guilty of Godwinizing the discussion? ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/7 "2012-10-15T13:15:28Z")
> [@Cinnamon\_Imp](#): > > And what username he would have picked? 😃 **Not See Dude** ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/8 "2012-10-15T16:54:24Z")
What would a person with absolute power and no restraint from a recognizable acknowledging a prohibition against evil do, and if they made no mistakes, how would it turn out? I can see why it is fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/9 "2012-10-15T17:19:50Z")
> [@Cinnamon\_Imp](#): > > And what username he would have picked? 😃 Housepainter. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/10 "2012-10-15T23:58:30Z")
I think part of it is that it’s one of the most obvious and most dramatic places where the economic-based and a personality-based views of history are fundamentally at odds. Like **Lumpy** says, a Nazi victory would have been a pretty extreme deviation from the course that history actually ran. In the interminable arguments about whether Hitler could have won if only he’d done “x”, we’re also really arguing about what affects the course of history. The more economic-based people would argue that, despite popular perception at the time, Hitler never really had a chance and was doomed by the overwhelming numerical and industrial superiority of the Allies, regardless of what specific military decisions he made. The more personality-based people would argue that popular perception was indeed right and if he hadn’t made x,y, and z strategic blunder he could have won and the present world would radically different. Most historians (armchair and otherwise) are somewhere in the middle of the two camps, or may be in one camp where one part of history is concerned and the other for others, but there are definitely two ways of looking at big historical events, and World War II is an event where the story is radically different depending on how you look at it. The Civil War is also similar and sparks similar debates about whether the south could have won, etc. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/11 "2012-10-16T12:40:51Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > Why aren’t there more threads on what the Japanese might have done to win their theatre of war? Some of the Japanese military themselves seem to have been sure from the start that it was a lost cause, do all alternate historians feel the same way? > > Is there something particularly fascinating about the Nazis that just makes us want to try and understand them more? I’ve seen an absolutely uncountable number of such questions. I think what people find fascinating about Hitler/Nazi hypotheticals is a combination of factors: [ul] [li]It was all about him! Hitler was largely the One Crazy Guy Dragging The World Into The Abyss, with a supporting cast of freaks and loons. Japan by contrast seems more like a multi-headed Hydra of inscrutable oriental warmongers that is much harder to understand[/li][li]Maybe perhaps possibly somehow Adolf could have pulled an Evil Victory™ by just being insanely lucky a few dozen more times. Japan was always just a snake in a crowd, no matter how hard it bit the stomp was going to happen eventually.[/li][li]Cool uniforms, sabre scars, heel-clicking, Lugers and honest-to-god monocles. And 200-ton tanks and 31-inch cannons and rocket planes. No real-life bad guys ever got as comic-book evil-genius supervillain as the Adolf fan club. Even at their most lunatic the Japanese were a more mundane flavor of vicious murderer.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/12 "2012-10-16T12:48:30Z")
it seems to me that WWII was also a significant turning point for Japan itself. Does anyone know if there much interest in Japan in exploring those possibilities? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/13 "2012-10-16T13:05:09Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > General consensus seems to be, if Hitler had not abandoned bombing British airfields, if he hadn’t declared war on the US, if he had gone for the Ukraine and left Moscow and Leningrad, two things would be the case. a) if he’d done all that he wouldn’t have been Hitler, b) he’d still have lost the war. > ? He **did** go for the Ukraine in preference to Moscow and that’s generally seen as a very good thing;unless you are German or Ukrainian. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/14 "2012-10-16T14:59:48Z")
But could the Germans have repelled the Normandy invasion if Hitler had unleashed his trained reserve of Tyrannosaurs at the critical moment? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/15 "2012-10-16T15:36:39Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > But could the Germans have repelled the Normandy invasion if Hitler had unleashed his trained reserve of Tyrannosaurs at the critical moment? Certianly if the Panzers had been released earlier than they were (4 divisions under Hitler’s personal control) then the battle might have been a lot more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/16 "2012-10-16T22:41:37Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Certianly if the Panzers had been released earlier than they were (4 divisions under Hitler’s personal control) then the battle might have been a lot more interesting. Bah! Reality! Give me tyrannosaurs any time! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/17 "2012-10-16T23:13:28Z")
Tyrannosaurs armed with 88mm guns would be better! ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/18 "2012-10-16T23:15:22Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Tyrannosaurs armed with 88mm guns would be better! Granted. Or at least Panzer Dragons! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/19 "2012-10-16T23:17:27Z")
But the British were prepared – they had land sharks with laser eyes. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711/20 "2012-10-16T23:24:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > But the British were prepared – they had land sharks with laser eyes. Wait a minute. Didn’t they unleash the unicorns first? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-fascinating-about-hitler-what-ifs/637711.md?page=2)