# What's so great about American citizenship?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [May 1, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461 "2014-05-01T20:31:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/1 "2014-05-01T20:31:16Z")
There was an article recently about the number of people who are giving up their US citizenship. This got me thinking (right after April 15,) what am I getting as an American that I couldn’t get somewhere else? Crime? Taxes? Last year spent 24% of my income on income taxes (state, federal, fica) and roughly 5-6% more on sales tax. It is by far the largest single expenditure I made.
What is the advantage of American citizenship that no other country has? Or, only countries that charge more have it?
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/2 "2014-05-01T20:33:52Z")
Well, like citizenship in most any other country, you get to live, work, and vote there without any restriction. You also may partake in the great honor of jury duty.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/3 "2014-05-01T20:36:59Z")
24% is a lot less than you’ll pay in a lot of countries.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/4 "2014-05-01T20:37:03Z")
I was thinking just this morning, for the first time in my life, about leaving he USA. Between the widespread support for torture, the death penalty, the drug war, and the widespread oppositin to things like meaningful environmental actions and true universal health care, I’m beginning to feel like other countries might be a better match for me. It’s it not the tax issue raised by\*\* Superhal\*\*, even though I pay much more than 24% of my income in taxes. I probably will stick it out and keep advocating for policies I support. I know that millions and millions of Americans are on my side.
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### Author:  [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/5 "2014-05-01T20:55:15Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> 24% is a lot less than you’ll pay in a lot of countries.
Those countries suck though. I’m talking about Asian countries with \<5%.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/6 "2014-05-01T22:33:56Z")
> [@Superhal](#):
>
> Those countries suck though. I’m talking about Asian countries with \<5%.
To each his own. I’m not even interested in visiting.
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### Author:  [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/7 "2014-05-01T22:50:05Z")
Keep in mind that a straight comparison of tax rate tells you nothing. In many countries, you pay a higher percentage in taxes, but a combination of higher wages, lower costs, or just more stuff being included in taxes that you would otherwise pay separately for, leaves you with more spending power (the money you just get to keep and do whatever with rather than pay bills etc.) than a lower tax rate would.
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### Author:  [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/8 "2014-05-01T23:15:15Z")
If anyone murders you, either at home or abroad, then you have the satisfaction of knowing the strongest country in the world will put all it’s resources into avenging you.
Think of it as a kind of insurance.
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### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/9 "2014-05-01T23:17:29Z")
Every country has big pluses and minuses, although with some the pluses or minuses are subtle enough that you might have to live there a while to pick up on them. It’s horribly trite to say it, but if you ask what your country can do for you more than you ask what you can do for your country, you eventually may sour on any country.
One negative about US citizenship is that rooting for the US is like rooting for the Yankees. Actually I don’t think it that bad, but it goes in that direction. Our younger son lives in Taiwan, a country with some real material advantages such as good universal health care and, compared to the US, more equal distribution of both income and wealth. But I’d be drawn to them even if that wasn’t true because they are a [forbidden nation](http://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Nation-A-History-Taiwan/dp/0230614248) under continual threat from a more or less evil empire.
We Americans do have a superior passport:
[http://o.canada.com/travel/ideas/travel-top-5-best-passports-for-travellers](http://o.canada.com/travel/ideas/travel-top-5-best-passports-for-travellers)
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/10 "2014-05-01T23:19:06Z")
It’s a lot better than statelessness, which is the only real alternative most American citizens have. If you have another possible citizenship, the question is reasonable.
When my parents were stateless European refugees after the war, they would have accepted American, Canadian, or Australian immigration papers. American came first and that’s why I’m an American citizen today. Many of my relatives are Canadian, simply because for them, Canada came through first.
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### Author:  [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/11 "2014-05-01T23:46:08Z")
> [@Superhal](#):
>
> Those countries suck though. I’m talking about Asian countries with \<5%.
What specific countries are you referring to?
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/12 "2014-05-02T01:06:47Z")
My take on it is, someone wants to emigrate, go ahead and emigrate and settle and become naturalized in your new home if you so desire. Whether you do it to flee persecution, for new opportunities, for love or because you just like the other place better, just be a loyal citizen of the new country and give something back to that community.
(And if the yaknowwhat hits the fan, don’t expect a seat on the rooftop helicopter.)
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/13 "2014-05-02T14:08:21Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> [http://o.canada.com/travel/ideas/travel-top-5-best-passports-for-travellers](http://o.canada.com/travel/ideas/travel-top-5-best-passports-for-travellers)
Yay! I have one of the three number ones and another one of them is a mere form and about three weeks away if I should so wish. Go me!
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### Author:  [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/14 "2014-05-02T14:24:31Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> 24% is a lot less than you’ll pay in a lot of countries.
This is true, especially in Sweden where [income tax can be up to 102%.](http://dmarron.com/2012/02/08/the-102-tax-rate-and-other-perils-measuring-tax-rates/)
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/15 "2014-05-02T15:18:35Z")
[the average American pays more in tax and social security than Canadians, Australians, the Japanese and the British.](http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/02/pf/taxes/income-taxes-wages/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
So those citizens of those countries pay less _ **and** _ they have universal health care?
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### Author:  [@The\_Batman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Batman)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/16 "2014-05-02T15:31:56Z")
If you are a college-educated individual with a degree that’s marketable in other countries then… the U.S. can’t really offer you much besides a homeland that shares your own culture and values.
To some people that’s not much; they don’t mind feeling like strangers in a strange land when they migrate to another country. To others it’s plenty; they feel homesick even after years making a life abroad.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/17 "2014-05-02T17:23:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> [the average American pays more in tax and social security than Canadians, Australians, the Japanese and the British.](http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/02/pf/taxes/income-taxes-wages/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
>
> So those citizens of those countries pay less _ **and** _ they have universal health care?
Having lived in Australia, and still retain my dual citizenship, the numbers in the chart are misleading, if not outright inaccurate. I once calculated all the required taxes and charges and it came to excess of 60 percent of my gross income compared to the US.
What the numbers do not reflect are the cultural differences, and some of those just do not translate. An adult American, who having spent much of their life in America, decides to give up their citizenship, is often in for a rude awakening. Even assuming they have enough overseas experience and ability to permanently settle elsewhere, there is always a nagging comparison between where you grew up and lived to where you are living now. Some folks do quite well. Some do not.
It is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Giving up your citizenship means you can’t go home again. Well, you can, but it will never be the same.
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### Author:  [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/18 "2014-05-02T18:37:01Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> [the average American pays more in tax and social security than Canadians, Australians, the Japanese and the British.](http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/02/pf/taxes/income-taxes-wages/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
>
> So those citizens of those countries pay less _ **and** _ they have universal health care?
Unless you’re rich. Capital gains tax is a fraction of income tax, and I believe they don’t have to pay fica, ss, or unemployment. Iirc, if your parents die rich, that money is free to you as well.
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### Author:  [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/19 "2014-05-03T02:54:00Z")
When you watch WW2 movies, you get to say that your country is the hero.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-american-citizenship/687461/20 "2014-05-03T03:51:09Z")
> [@suranyi](#):
>
> It’s a lot better than statelessness, which is the only real alternative most American citizens have. If you have another possible citizenship, the question is reasonable.
>
> When my parents were stateless European refugees after the war, they would have accepted American, Canadian, or Australian immigration papers. American came first and that’s why I’m an American citizen today. Many of my relatives are Canadian, simply because for them, Canada came through first.
Yup, I think Americans have a weird idea that it’s really easy as just a regular Joe to move to any other first world country. It basically isn’t, it’s as hard as moving to America and in many cases much harder. If you aren’t rich, have no other right to citizenship (due to parentage, birth place etc), then at best many countries have programs similar to ours where persons in high skilled and high demand occupations can put up for a sort of lottery. Other than that, sometimes if you work for a multinational corporation, if they transfer you to a foreign work place you can sometimes swing that into a permanent residency and eventually citizenship in that country. Or if you’re a political/religious refugee then sure, much of the EU is open to you but it’s not going to be easy to demonstrate you’re a refugee coming from the United States.
Now, if you’re wanting to move to certain developing countries it gets much, much easier. But for most Americans dreaming of throwing away their citizenship and hitting the wild blue yonder, I doubt that is what they imagine. Even some of those countries it’s not all that easy. Costa Rica is a favorite of American retirees, but that’s because American retirees typically have a lifetime of accumulated wealth which makes them attractive as immigrants. Someone who’s 30 years old with $30k in student loan debt, and maybe $10k in a savings account and is only able to earn a middle income in the States isn’t even a great immigrant candidate for Costa Rica.
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