# What's so great about Goodfellas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199 "2009-09-15T18:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/41 "2009-09-16T17:26:04Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Henry Hill has never admitted killing anyone which is not typical for a guy who was in the mob as long as he was. > > I read somewhere that the reason the mob did not want guys to deal drugs was because of the long sentences drug dealers get which made them more likely to flip and work for the government. Of course that was exactly why Henry flipped, to avoid a long prison term. No cite but I believe that you can get immunity for everything except murder. If this is the case,and I’m no expert,he most definitely wouldn’t own up to any killings that he might or might not have committed. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/42 "2009-09-16T17:45:40Z")
Jimmy (DeNiro character) and Paulie (Paul Sorvino) are the 2 main characters who died in prison. Henry says Tommy got whacked for killing Batts and “other things” , 1 of the other things was he tried to rape Karen. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/43 "2009-09-16T17:56:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Henry says Tommy got whacked for killing Batts and “other things” , 1 of the other things was he tried to rape Karen. Right, but the bigger other thing is that he killed Ronald Jerothe. Gotti really wouldn’t care if DiSimone raped Karen Hill. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/44 "2009-09-16T18:01:29Z")
The attempted rape of Karen was what made Paulie tell the Gambinos that Tommy killed Batts and Jerothe. That’s because Karen was having an affair with Paulie. Maybe the Gambinos would have found out eventually who killed those 2 if Paulie did not tell them but maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/45 "2009-09-16T18:42:49Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > And if anyone wants to buy some really bad art from him to support his post-mob lifestyle, you can head over to eBay: > > [http://stores.shop.ebay.com/HENRY-HILL-GOODFELLA-ARTWORK\_\_W0QQ\_armrsZ1](http://stores.shop.ebay.com/HENRY-HILL-GOODFELLA-ARTWORK__W0QQ_armrsZ1) Oh goodness. I’m not even sure I could justify purchasing that as pure kitsch. It makes serial killers look talented. Despite their gory ends, I still think some people watch _Goodfellas_ and think the mob is all glam. Granted, these are probably the same oafs who think _Mad Men_’s about the good old days, use _Swingers_ pick-up lines and quote _Boiler Room_ in sales meetings. IMHO, _Donnie Brasco_ got the pathetic schlubbiness of the mob down better, though overall it was much less entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/46 "2009-09-16T18:51:51Z")
> [@](#): > > No cite but I believe that you can get immunity for everything except murder. > If this is the case,and I’m no expert,he most definitely wouldn’t own up to any killings that he might or might not have committed. Even if that were not the case. Henry Hill is a _con man_. That’s his life. That’s what he did. He told people he was basically an OK guy and got people to trust him and think he was an OK guy. He even tells you this, several times, in the bio. The one lesson you should take away from it is that _you don’t believe anything he says_. There are lots of good commercial reasons for this (you wouldn’t be as interested in it or as willing to self-identify with a truly cold-blooded killer, if that were the case), but I suspect he couldn’t possibly act otherwise. So don’t believe Hill, on general principles. He might have been a calculating Machiavelli, or an amoral killer, or a psychopath, or a Regular Guy who manipulated circumstances as best he could. The point is you can’t rely on his own testimony to decide which of these he was, as he himself obliquely tells you. If he whacked a lot of guys, he wouldn’t tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/47 "2009-09-16T18:59:24Z")
Speaking of Donnie Brasco, the FBI guy who was Donnie was able to hang out with the mob for a number of years without killing someone so maybe it’s not that hard. He only gave up his undercover role when he was asked to whack somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/48 "2009-09-16T19:25:33Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > It seemed like a particularly good genre movie, but not even remotely a classic. I’m with you. I thought it was overrated in 1990, and now it’s just gotten insane. It is, as others point out, a well shot, well acted movie. The only problems with it’s lack of an interesting or original plot and one dimensional characters who failed completely to engage me. If you can put aside those minor concerns, it works as a mob movie. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/49 "2009-09-16T20:52:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > A lot of gangster films like The Godfather films portray mobsters almost like some sort of aristocracy. Cultured, sophisticated guys living in huge gated estates almost like untouchable monarchs with their courts. It seems like romanticized gangster fantasy to me. Scorcese films like Goodfellas, Casino and The Departed ring more true. These are networks of unsophisticated blue collar guys with poor impusle control looking for every opportunity to cheat and steal from the system. They aren’t particularly intelligent or cultured. In fact, they are portrayed as pretty dumb. But they are very shrewd when it comes to their own survival. _Donnie Brasco_ is also really good at showing this side of the life. ---
**Author:** ![whatami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@whatami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatami)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/50 "2009-09-16T23:11:39Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I recently saw this movie. I… wasn’t that impressed. It’s a good movie, but fundamentally I thought it overblown and too **impressed with itself.** …SNIP bolding mine Heh… this totally made me think of Family Guy’s speech on the Godfather. [It insist’s upon itself!](http://www.funnyfamilyguy.com/videos/Family_Guy_Videos/Peter_Griffin_Dislikes_The_Godfather) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/51 "2009-09-16T23:16:27Z")
> [@whatami](#): > > bolding mine > > Heh… this totally made me think of Family Guy’s speech on the Godfather. > > [It insist’s upon itself!](http://www.funnyfamilyguy.com/videos/Family_Guy_Videos/Peter_Griffin_Dislikes_The_Godfather) Well, I suppose I meant that at least DeNiro and Pesci went at least one step to far towards ham. They wound up looking like caricatures rather than characters to me. Meanwhile, the movie seemed like the director thought if he distracted me with enough “cool” I’d forget that. But I wasn’t impressed and Hill in particular was a deeply unpleasant character. I still can’t figure out if they wanted me to ignore that or embrace it, but either way I wasn’t buying. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/52 "2009-09-17T00:08:20Z")
> [@](#): > > and Hill in particular was a deeply unpleasant character. So? It _is_ the mafia we’re talking about here. You want him to be glorified, as already said, go watch The Godfather. 😛 > [@](#): > > I still can’t figure out if they wanted me to ignore that or embrace it, but either way I wasn’t buying. You can’t just watch and see the events that happen to him now that he’s in the lifestyle he idolized since he was a kid? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/53 "2009-09-17T01:19:40Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > So? It _is_ the mafia we’re talking about here. You want him to be glorified, as already said, go watch The Godfather. 😛 You mistake what I said for what somebody else said. He an unpleasant, shallow character with neither head nor heart. He was a pathetic puppet blindly following his programming. That’s none too interesting. He’s heartless and seemingly incapable of independant thought. Frankly, his moron wife seemed like a much more fascinating character. Her, I would want a movie about. > [@](#): > > You can’t just watch and see the events that happen to him now that he’s in the lifestyle he idolized since he was a kid? No, because that’s the problem. The events largely happen _to_ him. He just goes along with whatever is happening or promises the quick buck right now. He’s only competent when under the immediate direction of another, and falls into exactly the stupid mistakes that everybody told him he would get into long ago. Plus, there was the self-serving nature of the memoir, which I read as a justification for his ratting. I don’t really care if people squeal on criminal organizations, but the fact that he apparently thought he needed to make himself look a victim is rather unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/54 "2009-09-17T02:25:51Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > No, because that’s the problem. The events largely happen _to_ him. He just goes along with whatever is happening or promises the quick buck right now. He’s only competent when under the immediate direction of another, and falls into exactly the stupid mistakes that everybody told him he would get into long ago. That’s an interesting thing about Goodfellas. For the most part events happen to and around Henry Hill. He doesn’t wack anyone. In fact Jimmy asking him to go down to Florida to wack some witness was a tip off that something was up. The one enterprise he tries to start up himself blows up in his face because he surrounded himself with morons. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/55 "2009-09-17T02:48:10Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That’s an interesting thing about Goodfellas. Well, I guess that’s where we disagree. I don’t think it’s even remotely interesting. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/56 "2009-09-17T12:09:26Z")
> [@](#): > > For the most part events happen to and around Henry Hill. He doesn’t wack anyone. See my statement earlier. This is based on Hill’s own account of his activities, and he’s an admitted con-man and scam artist who’s trying to make himself likeable. If he did whack anyone, he wouldn’t tell you about it. If he did instigate anything really nasty, it wouldn’t be in his interest to let you know. I suspect his apparently passive role in much of this is the result of a deliberate attempt to make himself not seem as mean, violent, and (let’s face it) as crazy as he makes his companions appear to be. He’s the ultimate Unreliable Witness. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/57 "2009-09-17T12:18:47Z")
Hill does admit to being a major drug dealer , that’s not very likeable to many people. And of course he was cheating on his wife for many years. I believe if the cops had evidence he did whack someone he would have done time before going into the witness protection program. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/58 "2009-09-17T12:39:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Hill does admit to being a major drug dealer , that’s not very likeable to many people. And of course he was cheating on his wife for many years. > > I believe if the cops had evidence he did whack someone he would have done time before going into the witness protection program. Dealing drugs isn’t the same as killing someone. Ditto cheating on your wife. People know he was a criminal – he just wants to be known as a _nice_ criminal. Just because the police don’t have evidence that he killed someone doesn’t mean that he didn’t, or wouldn’t say so (if he wasn’t trying to sell himself). I do think that there were no obvious indications that he killed someone or did something unsavory, because Nicholas Pileggi was writing the book, after all, not Hill, and if he found out there was nothing to stop him putting it in. It’s not that I think Hill is a Master Criminal who can cover everything up. It’s entirely possible that he didn’t actually do anything that would make him unlikeable. but it seems very possible that, in a long life of crime he did some things he wouldn’t want people to know, and that he was careful enough to conceal, and lucky enough not to get found out about. And those things he’s probably keeping under wraps. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/59 "2009-09-17T12:45:42Z")
Since he was there when Billy Batts was killed he could have possibly been charged for that murder - he admitted that whole story. BTW, the movie changed that story a little bit. Batts was not killed the same night he was busting Tommy’s balls about the shine box - he was killed a week later. Sammy the Bull admitted to at least 19 murders and he served less than 10 years because he testified against Gotti and others. He even ordered the killing of his wife’s brother. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199/60 "2009-09-17T14:17:59Z")
The first half of the movie is about the mystique of the Mafia and how someone can get caught up in what appears to be wealth, power, and a feeling of camaraderie. The second half is about the reality, about how you spend all your time worrying your best friend will kill you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-goodfellas/510199.md?page=4)