# What's so great about the Christian heaven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544 "2012-01-24T22:03:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/21 "2012-01-25T05:09:42Z")
The idea of a fluffy white heaven where everyone sits around with god and plays the harp was actually one of the key reasons I became an atheist, as a teenager. Sounded pretty boring to me. When we got a class assignment in 10th grade to artistically depict our personal version of heaven or hell (after watching bits and pieces of _Bill and Ted’s Bogus Journey_), I came up with a _Dante’s Inferno_-esque 8-layer hell that included telemarketers, book-burners, and people with mullets. Damn, that was a good assignment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/22 "2012-01-25T05:29:13Z")
I’m a Sam Clemmons fan, and when I think of Heaven, I think of all the sex we will be enjoying. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/23 "2012-01-25T06:06:07Z")
It is good - indeed, it is the best possible state for a human being (or human soul) to be in - by definition; just like God is good, and all powerful, by definition, and invisible pink unicorns are invisible (and pink) by definition. The stories about clouds and harps, or, come to that, hot and cold running beautiful virgins, are just metaphors, as any even semi-intelligent religious person will tell you. Heaven, they believe, is good in unimaginable ways, by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/24 "2012-01-25T06:42:28Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > It is good - indeed, it is the best possible state for a human being (or human soul) to be in - by definition; just like God is good, and all powerful, by definition, and invisible pink unicorns are invisible (and pink) by definition. That’s not true at all; God as usually described is evil, not good. A monster. “God is evil” is not a contradiction in terms, and people saying so doesn’t make it true any more than claiming “America is always right” makes it true. And plenty of people describe heaven is ways more specific than “the best possible state for a human to be in”, some of which are mentioned in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/25 "2012-01-25T07:24:48Z")
🙂 > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not true at all; God as usually described is evil, not good. A monster. “God is evil” is not a contradiction in terms. It depends on the sect of Christianity you’re talking about. Methodists, Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, and Gnostics all have different style of God. Some of these do seem to have and “evil” view of God, like Baptists and Catholics to a certain extent. Methodists emphasize the good aspects of the God of the Bible. Anyway on heaven, iirc the Gnostics didn’t necessarily say heaven was reached in the afterlife. They saw it as something Christ reached during his life. I’m not an expert on Gnosticism but it appeals to me more than other sects because it can be reconciled with a trust in science. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/26 "2012-01-25T11:07:43Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [Walter] Give me 72 slutty broads who know what the hell they’re doing! [/Walter] That’s why it trumps Islamic paradise. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/27 "2012-01-25T12:41:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not true at all; God as usually described is evil, not good. A monster. “God is evil” is not a contradiction in terms, and people saying so doesn’t make it true any more than claiming “America is always right” makes it true. The way I generally use is ‘God is good’, so if the scripture describes a good God that is probably true, if the scriptures show God is evil then your interpretation of it is wrong, as scriptures can not be broken - God has to be always good. But people do follow the wrathful commonly understood God in scriptures. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/28 "2012-01-25T13:03:23Z")
Don’t know abot Heaven, but Hell varies (by sect): -the Baptist Hell is where you are forced to drink and dance -the Catholic Hell is a place of heat and suffering -the Episcopalian Hell is where they serve the wrong kind of wine at dinner ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/29 "2012-01-25T13:11:01Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Don’t know abot Heaven, but Hell varies (by sect): > -the Baptist Hell is where you are forced to drink and dance What, reverse psychology hell? "Oh no! What new torment will the Devil inflict upon me! Not the leather clad nymphomaniacs! Anything but that! " “I think he’s buying it.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/30 "2012-01-25T13:13:11Z")
Beats me. I think Alien Heaven is more interesting: [http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+Captain+Stormfield&mid=B0326DB6D2488A89ED5AB0326DB6D2488A89ED5A&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2](http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+Captain+Stormfield&mid=B0326DB6D2488A89ED5AB0326DB6D2488A89ED5A&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rhbB5i1Cyw) (adaptation of _Extract from Captain Stormfield’s Visit to Heaven_ from Will Vinton’s _Adventures of Mark Twain_. Twain is responsible for the thoughts and the disdain for traditional Christian Heaven (which disdain showed up in other works of his, too, like _Letters from the Earth_), but Vinton is responsible for the visuals and the modern allusions) ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/31 "2012-01-25T15:42:56Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Beats me. I think Alien Heaven is more interesting: > > [youtube Captain Stormfield - Search Videos](http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+Captain+Stormfield&mid=B0326DB6D2488A89ED5AB0326DB6D2488A89ED5A&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2) > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rhbB5i1Cyw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rhbB5i1Cyw) > > (adaptation of _Extract from Captain Stormfield’s Visit to Heaven_ from Will Vinton’s _Adventures of Mark Twain_. Twain is responsible for the thoughts and the disdain for traditional Christian Heaven (which disdain showed up in other works of his, too, like _Letters from the Earth_), but Vinton is responsible for the visuals and the modern allusions) But it still can’t beat [Secular Heaven](http://dresdencodak.com/2005/11/29/secular-heaven/). ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/32 "2012-01-25T17:08:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [del]undead[/del] Indeed, for starters, one has to take into account that “There is no empathy in heaven”. There must be lots of husbands in heaven whose dearly beloved wives ended up in eternal torment in hell, and vice versa, and parents and kids similarly bifurcated, and lifelong friends split up forever, and so on. Yet there’s no mention that the occupants of heaven on their comfy clouds suffer even the slightest pang of anguish over the situation. Damn right there’s no empathy! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/33 "2012-01-25T17:21:55Z")
From what I’ve heard of it, I’d want no part. First, there’s the no beer thing. Second, none of my friends would be there. Pfft. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/34 "2012-01-25T17:34:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Mark Twain’s _Letters From the Earth_ goes into the matter in some detail. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Twain is responsible for the thoughts and the disdain for traditional Christian Heaven (which disdain showed up in other works of his, too, like _Letters from the Earth_) Yeah, [here’s a relevant passage](http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/twainlfe.htm#2). I share Twain’s disdain for that particular version of Heaven, but I don’t believe for a moment that that’s what Heaven is really like. Not too long ago in another thread, someone linked to a nifty Cracked article: [5 Things You Won’t Believe Aren’t In the Bible](http://www.cracked.com/article_18757_5-things-you-wont-believe-arent-in-bible.html). Heaven—that is, the traditional image, where all the dead people sit around all day on clouds, with wings growing out of their backs, playing harps—isn’t one of the “things,” but it might as well be. [QUOTE=rachelellogram] The idea of a fluffy white heaven where everyone sits around with god and plays the harp was actually one of the key reasons I became an atheist, as a teenager. Sounded pretty boring to me. [/QUOTE] “Sitting around playing the harp sounds boring, therefore God doesn’t exist”? I don’t think I understand the logic. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/35 "2012-01-25T17:48:56Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > …for eternity! No matter how great it is, it is for eternity! How would you not get bored? Well, at least there’s one bestseller to be read. And you get a good view of the weather from up there, so there’s that to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/36 "2012-01-25T18:19:30Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > The idea of a fluffy white heaven where everyone sits around with god and plays the harp was actually one of the key reasons I became an atheist, as a teenager. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “Sitting around playing the harp sounds boring, therefore God doesn’t exist”? I don’t think I understand the logic. It was the movie _Ghost_ for me (I guess I was 23 when I first saw it, though I’d been leaning agnostic/atheist for some time), when the black demon-creatures pulled the soul of the recently-killed bad guy off to some screaming fate… Hell, I guess, though the movie was deliberately vague on it _and_ Heaven, showing the latter as just a window of bright light. I felt kinda sorry for the demons - their job for eternity is to just to keep tormenting that guy? That sucks - it not only violates labour codes, but the laws of thermodynamics! After that, the blatant silliness and illogic that permeates religion in general meant I could never be a believer. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/37 "2012-01-25T18:36:16Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “Sitting around playing the harp sounds boring, therefore God doesn’t exist”? I don’t think I understand the logic. That was the only vision of heaven that my very-religious extended relatives had described to me, up to that point in my life. I figured any heaven that boring wouldn’t be paradise, thus creating an oxymoron that caused me to further examine my (lack of) faith. It was the catalyst, not the sole syllogism. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/38 "2012-01-25T18:48:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It was the movie _Ghost_ for me (I guess I was 23 when I first saw it, though I’d been leaning agnostic/atheist for some time), when the black demon-creatures pulled the soul of the recently-killed bad guy off to some screaming fate… Hell, I guess, though the movie was deliberately vague on it _and_ Heaven, showing the latter as just a window of bright light. I felt kinda sorry for the demons - their job for eternity is to just to keep tormenting that guy? That sucks - it not only violates labour codes, but the laws of thermodynamics! > > After that, the blatant silliness and illogic that permeates religion in general meant I could never be a believer. You think _those_ demons violate the laws of thermodynamics, go talk to Maxwell’s Demon. I always wondered if his demon was silver. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/39 "2012-01-25T19:01:51Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > There must be lots of husbands in heaven whose dearly beloved wives ended up in eternal torment in hell, and vice versa, and parents and kids similarly bifurcated, and lifelong friends split up forever, and so on. Yet there’s no mention that the occupants of heaven on their comfy clouds suffer even the slightest pang of anguish over the situation. Damn right there’s no empathy! As I understand it, historically gloating over the torments of the damned was considered one of the pleasures of heaven. There’s a strong streak of sadism in Christianity for all its babbling about “love”. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “Sitting around playing the harp sounds boring, therefore God doesn’t exist”? I don’t think I understand the logic. What, you’ve never heard “I don’t want to believe in a God like that” as a religious argument before? The fact is, religion is a wish fulfillment fantasy for most people, so anything that doesn’t fulfill the fantasies of the believer is going to be considered implausible, unbelievable - or as evidence against the religion. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/40 "2012-01-25T19:26:40Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > From what I’ve heard of it, I’d want no part. First, there’s the no beer thing. Second, none of my friends would be there. Pfft. But what if standing in the presence of God is like the best beer ever? > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > . . . Not too long ago in another thread, someone linked to a nifty Cracked article: [5 Things You Won’t Believe Aren’t In the Bible](http://www.cracked.com/article_18757_5-things-you-wont-believe-arent-in-bible.html). . . . Sorry, the heaven link is R-rated, according to the work blocker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544.md?page=3)