# What's so great about the Christian heaven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544 "2012-01-24T22:03:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/61 "2012-02-02T23:06:34Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > In the Peter Cook/Dudley Moore version of Bedazzled, Cook (the devil) illustrates the point nicely in explaining why he left heaven in the course of a theological conversation in which the devil is trying to convert Moore. > > Cook sits himself on top of a large pillar style post box, and invites Moore to pretend that Cook is God and that Moore is an angel, like Cook used to be. > > Dudley dances about for a few minutes singing and praising, praising and singing, then stops, puffed, and says, “But that’s so boring!” > > “Exactly”. At some point doesn’t the dialog go like this: Moore: Oh, you’re great, you’re wonderful, ocean breezes and rainbows, great stuff, I can’t think of all the wonderful things to praise you for. Cook/Devil: Not bad, but more fulsome, please. Moore: (more fulsome praise for a while). Moore: Here, that’s kind of boring, can’t we switch places? Cook/Devil: That’s what I said! Roddy ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/62 "2012-02-03T00:08:23Z")
My sister often mentions that in heaven, you’ll get to see all the people you’ve loved in your life and spend forever with them. I keep thinking _but I don’t even visit them that often NOW_. Eternity with my sister… uggh. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/63 "2012-02-03T03:41:51Z")
That is was rewritten and tampered with by lots of people, is the only truth I know about the bible. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/64 "2012-02-03T04:02:13Z")
I heard that when you go to heaven you get to look down on everybody and watch ‘em masturbate and stuff. That would be entertaining for a while, I guess. Not for a billion-billion years or nuthin’ but for a while maybe. Or maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/65 "2012-02-03T04:16:46Z")
A few years ago I decided to read the Bible from start to finish. About two thirds into the Old Testament it struck me that heaven had not been mentioned at all except as the place where God lived. Those who were faithful to God were rewarded by long lives, lots of children and material wealth. Eternal life in heaven was not part of the deal. Eternal salvation seems to have been a rather recent marketing strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/66 "2012-03-29T02:03:42Z")
> [@El\_Zagna](#): > > A few years ago I decided to read the Bible from start to finish. About two thirds into the Old Testament it struck me that heaven had not been mentioned at all except as the place where God lived. Those who were faithful to God were rewarded by long lives, lots of children and material wealth. Eternal life in heaven was not part of the deal. Eternal salvation seems to have been a rather recent marketing strategy. [racism] Of course the Jewish scripture would be all about winning material weath:p[/racism] Seriously though, there is a big change between the old and new testament, Jesus refered to heaven and hell a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/67 "2012-03-29T02:12:59Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > I was refering to the scriptually supported one pfft depends on how you read the scripture. What most sects would agree on is that it is the end of suffering and you will be embraced by god’s love, that sums it up pretty much. That’s cool, nice and ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/68 "2012-03-29T19:33:14Z")
Well the greatest thing would be eternal life. Never having to worry about death or having any kind of pain. But is it possible to be unhappy in heaven? According to the Bible, Satan convinced 1/3 of the angels to rebel against God. If heaven is perfect bliss, why would they do this? Also, Christians will be rewarded in heaven based on their actions. It would be shameful to make it to heaven by the skin of your teeth, but receive no rewards in front of everyone. I guess my biggest encouragement is with the NDE stories. One common element is the person loves it there so much that they don’t want to return or leave that place. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/69 "2012-03-29T19:34:09Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > According to the Bible, Satan convinced 1/3 of the angels to rebel against God. Where in the Bible is this? ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/70 "2012-03-29T19:45:45Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > According to prominent Christian theologians that I’ve heard, the suffering here on Earth is an unavoidable consequence of God having given us Free Will. They also say heaven has no suffering, therefore there’s no Free Will in heaven. Wrong. There is an inexorable change in our being by virtue of the fact that we recognize Jesus Christ as God. That invites the change in our being that will occur in heaven. To say that we have no free will is simplistic. To say that we can still sin is equally simplistic. I think it’s important to recognize (see Paul) that we are trying to evaluate heaven from an earthly, mortal, sinful perspective. You’ll remember that Paul went to heaven? He seemed to want to say good things about it, but was prevented in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/71 "2012-03-29T19:47:38Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > Well the greatest thing would be eternal life. Never having to worry about death or having any kind of pain. > > But is it possible to be unhappy in heaven? According to the Bible, Satan convinced 1/3 of the angels to rebel against God. If heaven is perfect bliss, why would they do this? Also, Christians will be rewarded in heaven based on their actions. It would be shameful to make it to heaven by the skin of your teeth, but receive no rewards in front of everyone. > > I guess my biggest encouragement is with the NDE stories. One common element is the person loves it there so much that they don’t want to return or leave that place. But they aren’t human beings, God’s greatest creation. It’s unfair to compare the two. On another point, the reward we receive are manifest in our responsibilities of the administrations of heaven - see the thousand year reign of Christ. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/72 "2012-03-29T21:02:08Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > Wrong. There is an inexorable change in our being by virtue of the fact that we recognize Jesus Christ as God. That invites the change in our being that will occur in heaven. To say that we have no free will is simplistic. To say that we can still sin is equally simplistic. I think it’s important to recognize (see Paul) that we are trying to evaluate heaven from an earthly, mortal, sinful perspective. You’ll remember that Paul went to heaven? He seemed to want to say good things about it, but was prevented in doing so. So you’re saying that we have Free Will in heaven? Therefore God _could_ create a place that has both Free Will and a lack of suffering. Why don’t you take up that issue with the theologians who say that is impossible (and its impossibility is the reason we’re burdened with suffering in this life), then when y’all get it all sorted out, come back and let us know what you decided. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/73 "2012-03-29T21:23:32Z")
The Free Will thing is a nonstarter. The people who choose to good go to Heaven, and so Heaven ends up being a pretty nice place. The folks in Heaven don’t do evil, not because they can’t, but because if they did, they wouldn’t be in Heaven. And don’t confuse “eternity” with “forever”, either: They don’t mean the same thing. Eternity is not just a long time; it’s a state beyond the concept of time. All times are the same, in eternity. Thus, the notion of “boredom” becomes irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/74 "2012-03-29T21:30:32Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > So you’re saying that we have Free Will in heaven? Therefore God _could_ create a place that has both Free Will and a lack of suffering. Why don’t you take up that issue with the theologians who say that is impossible (and its impossibility is the reason we’re burdened with suffering in this life), then when y’all get it all sorted out, come back and let us know what you decided. I would if that’s what I was saying. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/75 "2012-03-29T21:31:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The people who choose to good go to Heaven, . ?? ---
**Author:** ![steveo1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@steveo1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steveo1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/76 "2012-03-29T21:40:25Z")
I saw heaven in that Robin Williams movie, What Dreams May Come. Your wife goes to hell because she despaired after her kids died and that’s some sort of very bad sin and she has to live out eternity buried up to her chin while Robin goes to heaven which is living eternity inside an impressionistic painting. So it would stand to reason that any pain or sadness Robin felt over his wife’s fate would soon be numbed out from huffing all that oil paint everyday, and in time would render him brain dead. Say no more. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/77 "2012-03-29T21:49:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Free Will thing is a nonstarter. The people who choose to good go to Heaven, and so Heaven ends up being a pretty nice place. The folks in Heaven don’t do evil, not because they can’t, but because if they did, they wouldn’t be in Heaven. So the instant they have a “bad” thought, they just disappear? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/78 "2012-03-30T13:32:26Z")
If the good people who go to heaven always choose non-evil, then God could have created everyone that way in the beginning and saved a lot of suffering. You just can’t reconcile suffering in this life with complete lack of suffering in heaven. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/79 "2012-03-30T13:44:09Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > If the good people who go to heaven always choose non-evil, then God could have created everyone that way in the beginning and saved a lot of suffering. > > You just can’t reconcile suffering in this life with complete lack of suffering in heaven. What is a good person? I’m certainly not one and I’m going. Would you really want to live in a world that had no evil? Even stipulating that we could agree what evil is? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544/80 "2012-03-30T14:12:22Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > From what I’ve heard of it, I’d want no part. First, there’s the no beer thing. Second, none of my friends would be there. Pfft. Why do you think there’s no beer? Jesus was a wine-drinker, and he ate and drank post-resurrection, so I would think beer in heaven is not out of the question. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As I understand it, historically gloating over the torments of the damned was considered one of the pleasures of heaven. There’s a strong streak of sadism in Christianity for all its babbling about “love”. Your understanding, unsurprisingly, is wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-great-about-the-christian-heaven/610544.md?page=5)