# What's so scary about "Carmina Burana"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471 "2005-11-10T21:00:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/21 "2005-11-11T02:12:35Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t think it’s scarry. Besides, when I associate it with a movie, it’s with “Excalibur”. I didn’t often watch horror movies. Galloping along, the trees bursting into bloom as they pass, the King returning life to the Land… Damn, that’s entertainment! ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/22 "2005-11-11T03:36:45Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Your point being? My point being that there is nothing inherently “creepy” about a choir singing in Latin. To the contrary, many find that [Gregorian chant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_chant) can be transcendently serene, as the best-selling album [_Chant_](http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:wluh6j3771u0) showed. And my point being that Catholics of a certain age will associate Latin singing with the liturgy, not with the creepy. Rather, the other musical factors that **pulykamell** so well described above make _O Fortuna_ so intensely dramatic. After all, _Carmina Burana_’s rollicking drinking song [_In taberna quando sumus_](http://www.classical.net/~music/comp.lst/works/orff-cb/carmlyr.html#track14) is also in Latin. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/23 "2005-11-11T04:13:09Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Galloping along, the trees bursting into bloom as they pass, the King returning life to the Land… > > Damn, that’s entertainment! I second that. (Translation: I was going to post that, but some SOB beat me to it) The Overture to Wagner’s _Die Meistersinger von Nurnber_, spell checker or no, was used in the Lugosi _Dracula_ and it ain’t scary. I think the swan singing while he’s being roasted is pretty scary, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/24 "2005-11-11T07:57:01Z")
In \*The Black Cat \* (1934), Boris Karloff leads a Satanic cult in a black mass and they’re chanting in Latin. Very eerie. I’m told that, if you listen closely, the phrases include \*cum grano salis \* and _recuctio ad absurdam_. At the climax of _The Godfather_, during the baptism, the Bach organ music and the priest chanting in Latin combine for a nice, menacing effect for all the murders coming up. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/25 "2005-11-11T09:09:28Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > That isn’t _Carmina Bur_ana in **The Omen** –it’s all original (and award-winning) music by the late Jerry Goldsmith (who may have been inspired by Orff). You beat me to it, but thank you anyway. This (for reasons I don’t quite understand) is a huge irritance of mine. I don’t know where this thing comes from, but it’s quite a popular belief. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/26 "2005-11-11T09:17:25Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Not sure where you can find the lyrics, but “Ava Satani” is a much darker, more brooding piece than “O Fortuna”. The problem is that the song is _Ave Satani_, not Ava. I remember the opening lines, and I’m sure I can find a page somewhere. Yes, [here](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Omen-Ave-Satani-lyrics-Fantomas/1B153CAE43A3179D48256DAC0012E3FC) you go. Translation, as I’ve read (as I do not read Latin) is _Sanguis bibimus_ The blood we drink _Corpus edimus_ The body we eat _Tolle corpus Satani_ Raise the body of Satan _Ave versus cristus_ Hail the Antichrist _Ave Satani_ Hail Satan ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/27 "2005-11-11T13:54:12Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > My point being that there is nothing inherently “creepy” about a choir singing in Latin. You’ve been whooshed. It was a joke, son. You, in essence, asked what was so creepy about the Catholic church, and I answered “plenty.” Sheesh, it sucks having to explain an unfunny joke. But there can be something very unsettling about Latin, given the right setting. I’m not quite sure what it is, but there’s a “God’s gonna get you” feel about it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/28 "2005-11-11T14:15:33Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > but there’s a “God’s gonna get you” feel about it. Yeah, it’s like they _knew_ who put the joint in the Jesus statue’s hand when I was at Catholic High. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/29 "2005-11-11T14:49:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > In a similar fashion, I’ve heard that “Swan Lake” was thought to have associations with horror (yes!), which is why it’s used as the opening credit music for Tod Browning’s 1930 **Dracula** (it’s also heard at a performance during the film – the only music in the original film, at least until the recent Glass score). So I suppose Carmina Burana could, in its turn, be seen as at least anxious. Swan Lake was also used in Karloff’s THE MUMMY- and yeah, far as I’m concerned, it’s creepy music, tho the Dracula/Mummy arrangement is creepier that the standard version. Btw- I’ll take it in Dracula anyday over the Glass score & I generally like Glass. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/30 "2005-11-11T14:51:06Z")
RE Ave Satanas/O Fortuna- alas, Goldsmith is no longer around to ask but I would bet my next paycheck that the latter provided some inspiration for the former. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/31 "2005-11-11T17:16:58Z")
_O Fortuna_, to me, will always be the Old Spice music, thanks to an old ad. “The sea, it attracts…” ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/32 "2005-11-11T21:00:10Z")
I used to sing with a symphony chorus, and most of the works we performed were sacred (we did a _lot_ of Requiems). One year we sang _Carmina Burana_. A couple of members of the chorus (members of long standing, I might add) resigned in a huff when someone passed around a translation. I was pretty baffled by their attitude. I mean, yeah, there are a couple of invocations to pagan deities, a couple of songs about love and/or lust, and a complete disregard for religion. But nothing I thought was sufficiently scandalous to warrant such a reaction. Now had we been performing _Catulli Carmina_, also by Orf, I could have understood. Dat’s some _nasty_ stuff. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/33 "2005-11-11T23:37:16Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > I used to sing with a symphony chorus, and most of the works we performed were sacred (we did a _lot_ of Requiems). One year we sang _Carmina Burana_. A couple of members of the chorus (members of long standing, I might add) resigned in a huff when someone passed around a translation. I was pretty baffled by their attitude. I mean, yeah, there are a couple of invocations to pagan deities, a couple of songs about love and/or lust, and a complete disregard for religion. But nothing I thought was sufficiently scandalous to warrant such a reaction. Bless 'em. Plenty of Renaissance-period composers wrote _Missae Fortuna Desperata_ - mass settings explicitly using a secular song about fate and fortune. Even if their protest was well-meant, it was centuries too late 😉 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/34 "2005-11-12T00:06:29Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Galloping along, the trees bursting into bloom as they pass, the King returning life to the Land… I remember this scene, but never this “king returning life to the land” thing never crossed my mind… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/35 "2005-11-12T00:55:05Z")
Another thing, Orff purposely created the music to speak to the primal in people: basically, it _rocks_, as opposed to most classical music which is meant to showcase musical virtuosity and express emotions more subtly. When you combine primal with Latin you get Gothic. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/36 "2005-11-12T01:01:49Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I remember this scene, but never this “king returning life to the land” thing never crossed my mind… “You are the land, and the land is you…” ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/37 "2005-11-12T14:51:49Z")
hm- my subscibing to the thread yielded me the entire thread in my e-mail. Btw- has anyone ever read any statement by JG on O Fortuna’s influence on Ave Satanas? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/38 "2005-11-12T15:20:05Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > :dubious: I’m old enough to remember when the Catholic mass was in Latin. I went to a mass in Latin once, many years ago. It was quite clear that the only two people who understood what the priest was saying were the priest and myself - everyone else was doing it by rote. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/39 "2005-11-13T02:36:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I went to a mass in Latin once, many years ago. It was quite clear that the only two people who understood what the priest was saying were the priest and myself - everyone else was doing it by rote. I go to a Latin mass every Sunday. This sort of statement that “nobody understands it but the priest” is simply not true. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/40 "2005-11-13T05:17:02Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I go to a Latin mass every Sunday. This sort of statement that “nobody understands it but the priest” is simply not true. Yeah. Who says the priest understands it? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471.md?page=3)