# What's so scary about "Carmina Burana"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471 "2005-11-10T21:00:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/41 "2005-11-13T06:57:28Z")
In fairness to **Quartz** , he was talking about a particular Latin mass he attended, not all Latin masses. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/42 "2005-11-15T03:15:00Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > … the cymbals start clashing, the kettledrums are a-rolling, and the chord moves up to an A major, ending the song, not only on a major chord, but on the V chord of the piece, which sort of–at least to me–implies a sense of hope or triumph or…well, whatever it is, it’s something good. I must have been smoking crack when I wrote this. The final chord is major, but it’s the I (D Major), not the V, which is a cool trick, the minor-major tonality switch at the end. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/43 "2005-11-15T03:17:33Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > any time you have a choir singing in Latin, there’s a creepiness to it. > [@Walloon](#): > > :dubious: > I’m old enough to remember when the Catholic mass was in Latin. Is that meant as a counterargument, or an example? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/44 "2005-11-15T04:41:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is that meant as a counterargument, or an example? 🙂 See my follow-up post. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/45 "2005-11-15T18:31:39Z")
Put me down as another guy who also associates the tune with Boorman’s outstanding _Excalibur_. It perfectly fit that scene, with King Arthur and his knights galloping through the trees as they burst forth in flowers. Not scary at all in that context, but exuberant, celebratory, and uplifting. Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/46 "2005-11-15T18:52:38Z")
After having thought about this for a few days, I’ve come to a slightly different conclusion. Sung Latin is not always creepy. Sometimes it’s extraordinarily beautiful. It makes for great church music, because it, for some reason, has an almost etherial and sacred quality. Think of the beauty of the Madonna. Now think of the beauty of the Madonna profaned. Think of the ugly and sick jokes you can make of her. Madonna as whore, as a mockery of herself, as ultimate vile sinner. It’s a horrifying thing, even to those of us who did not grow up with the Catholic tradition. Now think of Latin vulgarized. The sacred beauty of the language used in a vile and brutal way can have some very powerful implications, even if only subconsciously. That’s my theory, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/47 "2005-11-15T19:42:05Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Think of the beauty of the Madonna. > > Now think of the beauty of the Madonna profaned. Think of the ugly and sick jokes you can make of her. Madonna as whore, as a mockery of herself, as ultimate vile sinner. With multiple gold albums, sold-out world tours, and two documentaries and a coffee-table book about her sex life! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/48 "2005-11-15T19:49:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > With multiple gold albums, sold-out world tours, and two documentaries and a coffee-table book about her sex life! 😃 _shudder_ Looks like this atheist will be saying a lot of Hail Mary’s tonight. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/49 "2005-11-15T20:22:02Z")
Personally, I’m going to be associating Carmina Burana with [this thing](http://www.bigad.com.au/) for a while… (Warning: applet, plays movie with sound. Worth it, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/50 "2005-11-15T21:36:30Z")
> [@](#): > > and in any case I’d wager that most people couldn’t tell you what language Carmina Burana was in, anyway. Which, I think, is part of the point. If you use a language that nobody knows, it sounds arcane. It’s the same reason, I imagine, that most of the spells in the Harry Potter books are Latin-based. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/51 "2005-11-15T21:45:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you use a language that nobody knows, it sounds arcane. It’s the same reason, I imagine, that most of the spells in the Harry Potter books are Latin-based. Nonsense. The only thing guaranteed by using a language nobody knows is that the meaning of the words is irrelevant. The spells in Harry Potter sound Latin-ish because all fictitious spells sound Latin-ish. **Pulykamell** is the only person who’s talked any sense in this thread - it’s about the music, and about the external associations we bring to it. _Carmina Burana_ sounds ‘scary’ because it _is_ the archetypal ‘scary music’ cliche. It’s circuitous, yes, and it doesn’t say why it _acquired_ that status, but it answers the immediate question. (Actually, my snippy answer would be 'Because it sounds a bit like the Verdi Requiem. But that would get us further bogged down with the distractions of Latin stuff.) ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/52 "2005-11-15T21:46:40Z")
[Three](http://www.classical.net/~music/comp.lst/works/orff-cb/carmlyr.html#track8) of the songs of _Carmina Burana_ are in German. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471/53 "2005-11-15T21:58:10Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m old enough to remember when the Catholic mass was in Latin. Heck, I’m old enough to have _memorized_ the Mass in Latin as an altar boy. It inspired me to get books on Latin to try to understand what I was saying, and to later go on and study Latin in High School. > [@](#): > > Nonsense. The only thing guaranteed by using a language nobody knows is that the meaning of the words is irrelevant. The spells in Harry Potter sound Latin-ish because all fictitious spells sound Latin-ish. I’m not sure what you’re saying here – not all fictitious languages and incantations sound like Latin just because they’re unfamiliar. Rowling has certainly tried to make her spells sound like Latin by putting all those “-us” endings on the words, and using latin roots. They’re not really Latin, but they sound like it. Tolkien’s Dwarfish is a made-up language that doesn’t sound at all like Latin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-scary-about-carmina-burana/330471.md?page=2)