What's so smart About The "Smart Car"?

Great Debates
121

[QUOTE=levdrakon]
Exactly. You’d step on it. Because it’s smaller than you. Look out motorcyclists! ManiacMan is coming in his larger vehicle! Better get out of his big ol’ way! He’s bigger than you! Run, run!

When I lived in Germany Smart cars were all over and you can cram a lot more of those into parking spaces than you can big ass 'Mericun cars. The local equivalent to Dominoe’s Pizza had a fleet of them, and they struck me as pretty “smart.”
[/QUOTE]

No I wouldn’t be the one who “stepped” on it…it would be a semi/tractor trailer that had squished it flat, and it would be me not noticing it and invariably stepping on it like one steps on a turd. As for motorcyclists I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. Stop trying to read my mind.

122

[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
No I wouldn’t be the one who “stepped” on it…it would be a semi/tractor trailer that had squished it flat, and it would be me not noticing it and invariably stepping on it like one steps on a turd. As for motorcyclists I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. Stop trying to read my mind.
[/QUOTE]
I’m sure we don’t actually have a problem here. As a bicyclist & motorcyclist I’m sensitive about people whose attitude seems to be “I’m bigger, get out of my way.” The roads are for everyone to get from point A to point B. It’s not a playground where the big kids rule. It’s not supposed to be, anyway.

123

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Becuase whenever high MPG cars are brought up, someone always mentions diesels, I thought I’d share the following.
I just got then new MotorTrend and there’s an article about diesels. A few things:

  1. There are no diesel “commuter cars” or family sedans in America.

  2. Only one is planned for next year- the VW Jetta- but the same tech will go into an Audi Q7 and VW Touareg.

  3. The Mahindra Mhawk :confused: is planned for 2010 and it might have a diesel hybrid. :eek:

  4. Several are on the LT drawing board.

  5. Diesel fuel has around 11% more energy so you can expect 11% or so better MPG. But in America, Diesel costs around 20% more, so it’s a net loss.
    [/QUOTE]

Actually, Mercedes makes a diesel family sedan. E320 BLUETEC Sedan..NOT legal for sale in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, or Vermont

I did an article on diesel offerings a few months ago and spoke to all the major manufacturers.

Audi has at least one planned for 2009
BMW told me that they would have at least one released by the end of 2008, but no word yet
Caddilac has one planned for 2009
And honda has one that should be released by 2010.

All of this info I got speaking directly with representatives from the manufacturers.

yes, diesel is more expensive RIGHT NOW…it fluctuates…a few months back it was cheaper than gas…before that it was more expensive. I run 100% biodiesel in my mercedes (pump biodiesel not waste veg oil) and it’s 20 cents a gallon cheaper than dino based diesel, but still more than gasoline.

124

[QUOTE=bdgr]
Actually, Mercedes makes a diesel family sedan. E320 BLUETEC Sedan..NOT legal for sale in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, or Vermont
Audi has at least one planned for 2009
BMW told me that they would have at least one released by the end of 2008, but no word yet
Caddilac has one planned for 2009
And honda has one that should be released by 2010.

All of this info I got speaking directly with representatives from the manufacturers.
yes, diesel is more expensive RIGHT NOW…it fluctuates…a few months back it was cheaper than gas…before that it was more expensive. I run 100% biodiesel in my mercedes (pump biodiesel not waste veg oil) and it’s 20 cents a gallon cheaper than dino based diesel, but still more than gasoline.
.
[/QUOTE]

At something quite a bit north of 50 large, the Mercedes is a luxury sedan, not a family sedan. It gets around 24 mpg or so.

The Audi is the one with the VW engine I spoke of. Both this and the Touareg as SUV’s. Sorta. :stuck_out_tongue:

BMW has a plan for one in 2010, another luxury sedan.

Honda is “in the pipeline” (it’s a Pilot, a mid-sized SUV),along with Subaru, which should be a Forester- and one can call a Forester a commuter car or family car. I suspect both might get decent MPG, but not great.

No word on the Caddy. All this per the July 2008 issue of MotorTrend.

Lots of Big trucks and SUV’s will be coming out running diesel. There’s only the Jetta and maybe the Subaru that could be considered commuter or family cars. Sure, those big trucks and SUV’s will get better MPG from diesel, but no one is thinking “wow, I’d better buy that 16 MPG diesel truck to save on my monthly commuter gas bill!” :stuck_out_tongue: They want 30+ MPG. None of these, except the Jetta, will be getting that.

Diesel ain’t coming down. THere’s some future in biodiesel but food shortages make make this passe also.

125

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
At something quite a bit north of 50 large, the Mercedes is a luxury sedan, not a family sedan. It gets around 24 mpg or so.

The Audi is the one with the VW engine I spoke of. Both this and the Touareg as SUV’s. Sorta. :stuck_out_tongue:

[/quote]

The audi representative told me that they were working on a sedan, one of the euro models.

Not according to BMW, There spokesman stated emphatically that they were trying to have it on the American market by the end of 2008, but that they wanted it to reach all states, unlike the mercedes.

Honda is working on an diesel accord, that will get around 62 mpg. They’ve shown it at trade shows, but they would not give a firm date.

Sure there is. I called them and asked them.

Motortrend did not do their homework on this. I researched the article back in November and personally called each car company to verify before I wrote the article. It’s a pain in the ass, it’s a lot easier to write the article by searching the companies online press room or website, but I wanted it to be accurate.

According to your article. Not according to the people who build the cars

It comes down every year. But we’ll see. There are plenty of plants we can get biodiesel from that dont effect the food supply. there is a company in florida that has over a million jatropha plants in the ground ready to sell to growers. It produces biodiesel, and will grow where food crops won’t. There are tobacco farmers converting to rapeseed for biodiesel. Algaie…The food shortage thing is only a temporary setback while new options are exploited.

126

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Diesel ain’t coming down. THere’s some future in biodiesel but food shortages make make this passe also.
[/QUOTE]
This is simply not true. Algae based biodiesel is 100’s of times more dense per acre than any other crop and we are producing it now. We can produce all the energy needed in the United States if this technology is used. The big 3 don’t need to reinvent the wheel in engine technology because they sell diesels in Europe.

127

[QUOTE=Magiver]
This is simply not true. Algae based biodiesel is 100’s of times more dense per acre than any other crop and we are producing it now. We can produce all the energy needed in the United States if this technology is used. The big 3 don’t need to reinvent the wheel in engine technology because they sell diesels in Europe.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly. The emissions standards for diesels are too strict in this country which keeps some of the cleaner burning diesels from making it here. Especially when they are powered by biodiesel these cars are cleaner overall than the gas equivalents, but the restrictions we put on them keep them out.

128

[QUOTE=levdrakon]
Nice. I’m sure you feel the same way about pedestrians, bicyclists and motorcyclists and basically anything smaller than you. How very American.
[/QUOTE]

How very bigoted.

For the record, the Smart Car isn’t a bad car because it’s really small - it’s a bad car because it’s poorly engineered and represents poor value for the money. Actually, its size is its only saving grace. If you absolutely have to have a car that small, the Smart can give you small. But if you buy it because it’s small, you do so in spite of its poor qualities.

The Smart is not unique in this. There are all kinds of cars on the road that simply aren’t very good buys. Someone has to come in dead last in all those comparison reviews. The Smart is one of them. And there are cars that have one thing special that makes people overlook their flaws - a Mustang is pretty and sporty, and so people overlook the fact that they’re driving a car with an antiquated suspension and cheap interior materials. The last generation Pontiac GTO was a much better car than the Mustang GT, and couldn’t sell a fraction as many.

So the Smart is cute, it’s tiny, and it makes a statement about who you are. No problem. That may make it worth buying, to you. But measured objectively, other than small dimensions it’s not a very good car.

129

I’ve had a look at the smartusa site and the UK site and the fuel economy numbers seem to be pulled out of various asses. The EPA says 40/45 (EPA 2007); 33/41 (EPA 2008). The UK says 60.1 for a combined MPG. Translate this to US gallons and it’s still 48. Have they had to tweak it to meet some obscure pollution regulation, or maybe for lower quality fuel in the US?

Sam I’m with you on the value for money, people here are willing to pay over the odds for the ‘cool’ factor, but where are the poor engineering allegations coming from, the US press? Mine is 7 years old, has no rattles or squeaks, and hasn’t had anything mechanical go wrong.

130

[QUOTE=kferr]
I’ve had a look at the smartusa site and the UK site and the fuel economy numbers seem to be pulled out of various asses. The EPA says 40/45 (EPA 2007); 33/41 (EPA 2008). The UK says 60.1 for a combined MPG. Translate this to US gallons and it’s still 48. Have they had to tweak it to meet some obscure pollution regulation, or maybe for lower quality fuel in the US?

Sam I’m with you on the value for money, people here are willing to pay over the odds for the ‘cool’ factor, but where are the poor engineering allegations coming from, the US press? Mine is 7 years old, has no rattles or squeaks, and hasn’t had anything mechanical go wrong.
[/QUOTE]

The European engine is different than the engine that is used for the US version. That explains that difference. Also I doubt very seriously that the Europeans calculate mileage using the same test the Americans do.
As far as the 2007/2008 numbers go, EPA revised their test cycle for the 08 model year to give numbers that are closer to what people experience in the real world.
YMMv of course.

131

[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
How very bigoted.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, bullshit. The other poster said:

How does that not sound like what it sounds like?

132

[QUOTE=levdrakon]
Oh, bullshit. The other poster said:

How does that not sound like what it sounds like?
[/QUOTE]

The bigoted part comes from translating one person’s opinion into, “How very American of you.”

If you came from Scotland, and you said, “I wouldn’t pay that kind of money for that car”, and I said “How very Scottish of you”, would you call that bigoted?

kferr: I don’t mean it’s poorly engineered from a quality standpoint - from what I understand, it’s built quite well. I mean it’s poorly engineered from a design tradeoff standpoint. For example, the thing is very slow, very light, very small, and yet only gets 11% better gas mileage than a competitor’s car which has almost twice the horsepower and 800 pounds more weight. Something’s not right there. Also, the decision to build a car that is sold based on fuel savings, and then to put an engine in it that requires premium fuel, seems to me to be a bad engineering choice. That car that gets 11% worse gas mileage actually has similar fuel costs, because it runs on regular.

133

Thanks for the clarification. They must have really had to mess it up for the American market, it’s as if they’re trying to fail. I did a quick comparison on one of its competitors here, the Citroen C2. The Smart Passion with the 1.0l turbo 84bhp gets 57.6mpg and costs £8900. The C2 with the 1.4 petrol 75bhp gets 47mpg and costs £9365. For around an extra £1000 you can get the C2 with the 1.4 turbo diesel that gets 66mpg.