# What's so wrong in calling a woman good-looking? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990 "2013-04-06T05:14:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/61 "2013-04-07T00:59:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Complimenting my looks at a widely publicized professional event? Inappropriate. If you’re a woman. No one took offense when he did the same with men. And note, it doesn’t matter if you, the woman in question is actually offended or not. You don’t have the right to make that decision, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/62 "2013-04-07T01:15:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, I was extruded out of a pod in an automated lab, where I’ve lived ever since. :rolleyes: Let me rephrase that. I surmise from your posting history that you have had few, if any, personal relationships with any women you were not closely related to. Am I wrong? > [@](#): > > And people going out of their way to desexualize women, and only women is just as sexist as the opposite. What a silly thing to say. I hardly think refraining from making public announcements regarding the personal appearance of a professional associate qualifies as “desexualizing” anyone. > [@](#): > > It’s also a cave-in to the old Christian patriarchal idea that female sexuality is bad. If you are making comments about your female colleagues’ attractiveness, that would seem to be an expression of _your_ sexuality, not theirs. Wouldn’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/63 "2013-04-07T01:39:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If you’re a woman. No one took offense when he did the same with men. And note, it doesn’t matter if you, the woman in question is actually offended or not. You don’t have the right to make that decision, apparently. What makes you think this? It’s equally inappropriate to comment on a man’s appearance in a professional context. Again, context is important. Commenting on Sarah Palin’s body in Runner’s World isn’t the same as commenting on it during an official debate. And no, I don’t care if she is offended or not. I’m sure some ladies like to get patted on the ass and called “girl” in the workplace, but that doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to do. This discussion isn’t about personal feelings, it’s about what is appropriate public discourse. Again, it’s not a huge deal, nobody has their pitchforks and torches out. But it was a tone-deaf comment and an apology is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/64 "2013-04-07T04:56:43Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Compliment my looks when giving me an Oscar? Sure. > > Complimenting my looks at a widely publicized professional event? Inappropriate. Aren’t the Oscars a professional event? What does having good looks have to do with acting ability? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/65 "2013-04-07T05:18:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If you’re a woman. No one took offense when he did the same with men. I don’t remember Barack Obama ever talking about how good looking some male Attorney Generals were. Since you say he did so, please point me to when he did so. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/66 "2013-04-07T05:21:19Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Janet Reno. Considering how many really nasty jokes she was subjected to due to her appearance that was an exceptionally stupid comment for you to make. Generally when in an argument you shouldn’t give your opponents ammunition. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/67 "2013-04-07T05:33:40Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Aren’t the Oscars a professional event? What does having good looks have to do with acting ability? Nothing, but most people probably won’t get acting/entertainment jobs without being physically attractive or at least cleaning up well. So looks do factor into that particular “professional” environment. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/68 "2013-04-07T05:36:40Z")
I’ve been giving this a bit of thought lately. Not this specific issue, this thread is how I heard of it, but the general question “why is it okay to say \ about \ and not about \?” The answer, in my mind, is that it **is** okay… in a vacuum devoid of context. There is nothing inherently, cosmically wrong about commenting on a woman’s looks in politics or science or any ability-driven field. There’s no moral reason you can concoct for it devoid of anything. The issue is volume and history. Women have a history of having their looks mattering in contexts where they shouldn’t (to a greater degree than it affects men). However, I think it’s the volume more than anything that ultimately contributes. Since **so many** women get the comments, it’s become somewhat of an eyebrow raiser – especially when combined with the history. **Even if it’s true** , and **even if it’s fairly applies by the speaker to other groups** , it simply adds to the cacophonous symphony of voices crying “and pretty to boot!” It’s one of those ironies that you’ll know it’s okay to comment (positively) on a woman’s looks in science and politics when nobody does it anymore. I disagree that it’s inherently wrong to comment on somebody looks because they’re technically irrelevant. As mentioned earlier in the thread, people make irrelevant comments in speeches about people all the time (“my friend knows her”) – and Obama can easily make comments about men being handsome. It’s just one of those things that you have to stay your tongue for a few decades until it’s a very rare or characteristic comment, then feel free. So basically, I think crying “but he did it to men too!” is an irrelevant comment. Yes, but men rarely if ever get the complement. Just wait until women get the complement approximately as rarely as men, then you can know you’re fine in making it. Otherwise you’re just adding to the chatter. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/69 "2013-04-07T06:53:54Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Aren’t the Oscars a professional event? What does having good looks have to do with acting ability? ^ Odesio, pretending not to be familiar with one of the most common traits of movie stars. ^ ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/70 "2013-04-07T07:43:31Z")
I’m so tired of the non-sequiters in this thread. She is not his subordinate, he is not his supervisor. They have a close, personal friendship. This is NOT some professional working relationship. She was close to him in his campaign(s). Would it be inappropriate for a boss to comment on your looks during some speech about you getting a promotion or something? Yeah, sure, I can definitely see that. But that’s NOT what this was and there is NO reason to be offended by what Obama did and said. Like another poster here already said, the most offensive part of all of this was the apology. Honestly, if any of you would be offended by a good friend singing your praises and making a comment about how you are good looking in a public speech, then you need to reassess your level of sensitivity, to put it nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/71 "2013-04-07T11:14:44Z")
I wouldn’t care if someone said I was pretty. It’s only odd to reverse the genders in this scenario because it’s something women don’t generally do, for whatever reason. But on the occasions when they have, at my workplace, I’ve not been bothered about it. I have an exceptionally large ego though, and eat up complements whenever they’re passed my way. I think we need to stop being offended by silly little things like comments on how we look. And suggesting that there was anything sexual about the comment is really quite laughable. Trying to figure out what feminists _want_ me as a man to do these days has become something of a minefield (I can’t hold open doors for you, but I have to mention if you’ve done something different with your hair). Or maybe I just know a lot of inconsistent feminists. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/72 "2013-04-07T11:32:26Z")
I don’t know. I’m as sensitive as the next person but this seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. Almost like the Right think this kind of ‘gotcha’ journalism, which they so decry in the ‘lame stream’ media, is revenge. I think to them this nonsense is on par with ‘mispeaking’, about ‘legitimate’ rape etc. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/73 "2013-04-07T12:57:59Z")
None of the RO about this nonsense is coming from the Right. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/74 "2013-04-07T13:18:44Z")
It is a shocking example of sexism, by a man who has used race to his advantage. Of course, the media will never follow up on this, because the president is an expert at playing off the media. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/75 "2013-04-07T13:23:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Considering how many really nasty jokes she was subjected to due to her appearance that was an exceptionally stupid comment for you to make. > > Generally when in an argument you shouldn’t give your opponents ammunition. No, I was responding to someone’s assertion that women in politics are uniquely judged by their looks, which is patently untrue, as I pointed out. I took the poster I was replying to to mean that a woman has to be something of “a looker” to be successful in politics, which is not the case. In other words, there are _plenty_ of “ugly” female politicians that are good at their jobs. Same thing with men. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/76 "2013-04-07T13:34:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > None of the RO about this nonsense is coming from the Right. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@ralph124c](#): > > It is a shocking example of sexism, by a man who has used race to his advantage. > Of course, the media will never follow up on this, because the president is an expert at playing off the media. **Shodan** , care to reconsider? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/77 "2013-04-07T13:57:12Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I don’t remember Barack Obama ever talking about how good looking some male Attorney Generals were. > > Since you say he did so, please point me to when he did so. The link to Obama’s frequent comments about the looks of males in his introductions has been made. “Oh but none of _those_ were an _Attorney General_!” is a pretty inane comment. Yes, I get that commenting on a male’s looks does not have the baggage that commenting on a woman’s looks does, and that the context is not just whether or not she minds or smiles but the reinforcement of old stereotypes in a public sphere. He quickly realized that and hence the rapid acknowledgement and apology. In the future he will limit his after the singing of professional praises joking around compliment bit acknowledging being a friend as well, to males’ looks and females about how she beats him in poker or shoots a mean free throw or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/78 "2013-04-07T14:13:33Z")
It’s simple consciousness raising. If it makes some guys start thinking about what they say around their colleagues it worked. The zeitgeist moves another inch. > [@Simplicio](#): > > Obama makes similar jokes about [men pretty frequently](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/kamala-harris-good-looking-obama-sexist.html). If this isn’t fueling the “Obama is secretly gay” contingent I’m disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/79 "2013-04-07T14:20:39Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > It’s simple consciousness raising. If it makes some guys start thinking about what they say around their colleagues it worked. The zeitgeist moves another inch. For men, it moved towards “don’t compliment women, ever. Not even your friends.” And for women, it moved towards “you as a woman have no right to decide if you have been insulted or not, that’s a political decision. As a woman, you are no more than a political tool, not a person.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/80 "2013-04-07T14:37:34Z")
**Jragon’s** post summarizes my feelings exactly. I know a guy who talks a lot about other people. One thing I’ve noticed is that when he talks about guys, he’ll say something like this: “Oh, he’s a good guy. We’ve gone fishing before, and our boys are friends.” If he’s talking about a woman, though, he’ll say something like, “Oh, I like her. She’s sharp, takes care of herself. Very attractive. My type of woman.” Every woman is rated based on whether she’s his type. And heaven forbid if she’s not attractive. You will hear about it before too long. Maybe guys don’t hear stuff like this. Or if they do, they don’t give it much thought. But for this woman it grates after awhile. It doesn’t make me want to run out and protest in the streets, but it is irritating. And I don’t think I’m a hypersensitive person. I just like consistency. FWIW, knowing that Obama has done this with guys makes me feel less eye-rolly about it. But that doesn’t mean it was still the wisest statement to make, given the accusations that Harris has had to deal with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990.md?page=5)