# What's so wrong in calling a woman good-looking? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990 "2013-04-06T05:14:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/121 "2013-04-08T23:54:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Her friend, in a private fund raiser event, sang her professional praises and then as a lighthearted cap called her good looking to boot. There is no indication from her that _she_ was at all offended. Making this about what she should be or should not be is as immaterial as making this about whether or not the comment is out of line because it does not have to do with her job. Her response, or it seems lack of one, is irrelevant and even if her honest reaction was to smile or laugh at the comment it does not matter. Which demonstrates that this has nothing to do with women’s rights or respect for women, and in fact is contemptuous of them. There’s a real, live woman involved, not a theoretical one; and I keep seeing her and her desires waved away as irrelevant. The people taking offense over this in the name of women have about as much concern for actual women as a “People’s Republic” has concern for the actual people it rules over. > [@DSeid](#): > > Der Trihs, that is not victimizing her. That is what she signed up for by going into the business she is in. She may not care, but I am sure that both she and Obama recognize that the public sphere deserved him apologizing to her. As their representative. I rather doubt that. I expect that she’s pissed at being used like this, and having her friendship spat on. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/122 "2013-04-09T00:22:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which demonstrates that this has nothing to do with women’s rights or respect for women, and in fact is contemptuous of them. There’s a real, live woman involved, not a theoretical one; and I keep seeing her and her desires waved away as irrelevant. The people taking offense over this in the name of women have about as much concern for actual women as a “People’s Republic” has concern for the actual people it rules over. You don’t know what Ms. Harris’s desires are. You have no idea what she felt about the President’s comment. Unless she comments publicly on the matter, I doubt any of us will know. Those of us who object to benevolent sexism do so because it is demeaning to its object and diminishing to other women. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/123 "2013-04-09T00:42:53Z")
> [@Barrett\_Bonden](#): > > You don’t know what Ms. Harris’s desires are. And I keep being told that those desires don’t matter. > [@](#): > > Those of us who object to benevolent sexism do so because it is demeaning to its object and diminishing to other women. But treating a woman as a political pawn isn’t. It’s no wonder so many women have turned away from feminism; it doesn’t actually care about _them_. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/124 "2013-04-09T00:47:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And I keep being told that those desires don’t matter. I didn’t tell you her desires don’t matter. I told you that **you** don’t know what her desires are. To be honest, I was going to speculate on her feelings myself, but I realized that my theories are as unsubstantiated as yours, so I didn’t base my argument on them. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But treating a woman as a political pawn isn’t. It’s no wonder so many women have turned away from feminism; it doesn’t actually care about _them_. If you believe that being reprimanded for rudeness is treating the object of the rudeness as a political pawn, then we will have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/125 "2013-04-09T00:55:13Z")
> [@Barrett\_Bonden](#): > > If you believe that being reprimanded for rudeness is treating the object of the rudeness as a political pawn, then we will have to agree to disagree. When it’s a matter of telling her that she’s not allowed to decide if she’s offended (and telling her friend that he has to treat his female friends worse than his male friends), then yes, it’s treating her and her friendship as a political pawn. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/126 "2013-04-09T00:55:56Z")
At her level she’s a political bishop, or a knight anyway. And if she does not like that she should get off the chessboard. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/127 "2013-04-09T01:08:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > At her level she’s a political bishop, or a knight anyway. And if she does not like that she should get off the chessboard. And into the kitchen? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/128 "2013-04-09T01:20:04Z")
It’s if you can’t stand the heat you get _out_ of the kitchen, not into it. Out of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/129 "2013-04-09T02:48:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > When it’s a matter of telling her that she’s not allowed to decide if she’s offended (and telling her friend that he has to treat his female friends worse than his male friends), then yes, it’s treating her and her friendship as a political pawn. She’s perfectly allowed to enjoy or cherish the comment, but whether she likes it is irrelevant to the overarching problem of benevolent sexism. Something can be pleasant but also unfair or damaging in the long run. There’s a disconnect between what she likes and what’s right. Right now what we need is for people to hold off on those comments, because regardless of being complimentary and flattering, they’re damaging – not even necessarily for her, but for other women. If she was flattered, great! No hard feelings. He still shouldn’t have said it, though. And like most of us have said, this isn’t a humongous problem. Life goes on, it didn’t trash anybody’s opinion of Obama if they already liked him. It’s a tiny thing that people should watch for, not a cross to crucify them on. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/130 "2013-04-09T02:55:23Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > He still shouldn’t have said it, though. Let me clarify: He shouldn’t have said it _in that context_. In other, more personal contexts it’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/131 "2013-04-09T03:32:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > kind of tacky Pretty much sums it up. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/132 "2013-04-09T03:51:56Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > She’s perfectly allowed to enjoy or cherish the comment, but whether she likes it is irrelevant to the overarching problem of benevolent sexism. Which is somehow improved by turning it into _malignant_ sexism? How is demanding that women be treated _worse_ than men an improvement? ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/133 "2013-04-09T04:19:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which is somehow improved by turning it into _malignant_ sexism? How is demanding that women be treated _worse_ than men an improvement? Do you feel mistreated when people you’re talking to don’t tell you how handsome you are today? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/134 "2013-04-09T05:15:36Z")
> [@colander](#): > > Do you feel mistreated when people you’re talking to don’t tell you how handsome you are today? If _everyone but me_ was getting such compliments then yes, I’d feel insulted. And that’s what people are saying that Obama should have done. That he should have _singled this woman out_ by _not_ complimenting her. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/135 "2013-04-09T06:31:11Z")
It’s fucking sickening that there are people here arguing essentially, “well it’s ok or it doesn’t mean anything wrong if Obama compliments a male friend on being good looking, but he definitely shouldn’t be saying those things about a female friend!” It’s absolutely bizarre that people who are fighting for equality between the sexes would espouse such a ridiculous and frankly hurtful double standard. Benevolent sexism IS a problem, but this is about as far from benevolent sexism as you can get. It was a genuine, light hearted comment tossed on top of other praise BY A FRIEND TO ANOTHER FRIEND (one of whom happened to be a female and the other doing the praise happened to be a male). I feel genuinely sorry for you folks who can’t recognize that yes, benevolent sexism is a real problem in our society, but that no, this is not, DEFINITELY NOT, benevolent sexism. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/136 "2013-04-09T08:46:44Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > It’s fucking sickening that there are people here arguing essentially, “well it’s ok or it doesn’t mean anything wrong if Obama compliments a male friend on being good looking, but he definitely shouldn’t be saying those things about a female friend!” > > It’s absolutely bizarre that people who are fighting for equality between the sexes would espouse such a ridiculous and frankly hurtful double standard. > > Benevolent sexism IS a problem, but this is about as far from benevolent sexism as you can get. It was a genuine, light hearted comment tossed on top of other praise BY A FRIEND TO ANOTHER FRIEND (one of whom happened to be a female and the other doing the praise happened to be a male). > > I feel genuinely sorry for you folks who can’t recognize that yes, benevolent sexism is a real problem in our society, but that no, this is not, DEFINITELY NOT, benevolent sexism. Again, it’s not the fact that he said it about a female friend – it’s the **volume** at which these comments are directed towards women. If it wasn’t directed that heavily towards women, combined with the history, it wouldn’t be bad, but unfortunately that background and context is there. All we need to do is cut down on it. Once it’s as rare as it is towards men, then it’s fine. The problem isn’t that Obama said it, so much as Obama contributed to the overwhelming volume. Once it’s rare, it’s okay. All people are saying is that people should be conscious and not use it until the zeitgeist changes a little – not that Obama needs to be crucified for daring to complement a woman’s looks. Hell, I understand your position, and I can see what you mean and agree on a certain level that it’s a **shame** that the comments are construed in a negative light, but unfortunately I think it’s a reality that they need to be cut down on. And again, I don’t think him doing it isn’t a huge deal. On a rank from “meh” to “national incident” it rates a solid “meh”. It really shouldn’t have been news, IMO. I don’t see why you see mine as “fucking sickening”. It’s an incredibly minor disagreement at best. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/137 "2013-04-09T08:51:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If _everyone but me_ was getting such compliments then yes, I’d feel insulted. And that’s what people are saying that Obama should have done. That he should have _singled this woman out_ by _not_ complimenting her. Like I said in an earlier post – most women I know who support not making these comments do admit that it stings not getting them. But they view it as a case of “ripping the band-aid off”. The discomfort and anxiety that comes from not getting the complement now is worth getting rid of the fixation on women’s looks in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/138 "2013-04-09T09:02:08Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Like I said in an earlier post – most women I know who support not making these comments do admit that it stings not getting them. But they view it as a case of “ripping the band-aid off”. The discomfort and anxiety that comes from not getting the complement now is worth getting rid of the fixation on women’s looks in the long run. That’s never going to happen, short of altering human nature. At most you’ll be able to flip society into one where female beauty and the appreciation of it is condemned as sinful. You’ll end up with something like Afghanistan under the Taliban, not an egalitarian Utopia. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/139 "2013-04-09T09:17:42Z")
Nothing wrong with it other than the fact that she was offended by it and Obama should have known she’d be offended by it. It sucks, but a lot of feminists have a problem with their own gender and sexuality. It sucks because it undermines their otherwise correct or at least arguable positions. It’s really pretty basic. Would it be wrong to say it to a guy? If not, then it’s not sexist. To claim otherwise is to be sexist yourself. It’s saying that women are too fragile to understand that, like guys, some are less attractive than others. I have the same problem with the Nostalgia Chick, who has given up on feminism because people would make comments about how attractive she was. Because of these feminists that teach this bullshit, she’s unable to focus on the huge number of people who tell her how great her work is. Nor can she realize that people can find her attractive and still think her work is great. But, anyways: Obama is not trying to change feminism, so he should have just went with what he should have known that his friend would prefer. It’s either that or make a lot more mistakes so people wouldn’t focus on this insignificant one. It worked for his immediate predecessor, after all… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990/140 "2013-04-09T09:23:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Nothing wrong with it other than the fact that she was offended by it and Obama should have known she’d be offended by it. Is there any evidence that she was? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-in-calling-a-woman-good-looking/654990.md?page=8)