# What's so wrong with Kerry?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 6, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629 "2004-04-06T21:20:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/21 "2004-04-06T23:40:05Z")
> [@Mr. Kobayashi](#):
>
> It’s been pointed out before, but he bears a striking resemblance to Lurch:
>
> [http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/atbirth.jpg](http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/atbirth.jpg)
I think he looks more like the bad guy from “Re-Animator”. Can’t find a god pic, though.
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### Author:  [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/22 "2004-04-07T00:03:34Z")
Kerry will be more anti-gun than Bush. His appointees, like the Attorney General, will be more anti-gun than those of Bush. His choice for Vice President will be more anti-gun than Cheney. They’ll be more animal rights friendly. They will be less friendly to my industry. They’ll be more enviromentalist (whacko types) friendly. I hate GWB for the Iraq mess and the Patriot Act, but Kerry is far, far worse on other issues that are important to me.
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/23 "2004-04-07T00:04:51Z")
> [@wonderwench](#):
>
> Longer answer: Kerry is a career politician with no moral core. He has flip flopped on major issues, trying to have it both ways. “I voted for it before I voted agains it.” In addition, his disgusting behavior in 1971 should disqualify him as a candidate. He asked for early discharge from Vietnam in order to run for office. And then spent months spreading lies that the U.S. committed worse atrocities in violation of the Geneva Convention than did the VC. He claimed such atrocities were common place and conducted with the full knowledge of the command structure. As he was an officer at the time, where is the record of him reporting such atrocities which would have been his duty?
Thanks for all the cites to back up your allegations here. As **rjung** has noted, many of those “flip-flopping” claims involve such complicating issues as how one should actually pay for the war in Iraq and how the money should be spent. Apparently, we are now in a democracy where if you don’t precisely support the President’s view on this, you are voting against paying for it period. You know, the black-white, you are either with us or against us mentality that seems to appeal to 5 year olds and a distressingly high number of conservatives. It is truly pathetic how low political discourse has sunk in this country.
By the way, [here](http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040406/NEWS08/40406001/-1/NEWS) is a cite regarding some of the atrocities that were committed and were documented in reports that just won Pulitzer Prizes:
> [@](#):
>
> Michael D. Sallah, Mitch Weiss, and Joe Mahr received the investigative reporting prize for their series – “Buried Secrets, Brutal Truths” – which detailed how the Army failed to stop the atrocities after commanders were told about them. The reporters also discovered that the Army failed to prosecute soldiers who killed unarmed civilians after an investigation found the platoon had committed war crimes.
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/24 "2004-04-07T00:07:31Z")
> [@Machetero](#):
>
> Kerry will be more anti-gun than Bush. His appointees, like the Attorney General, will be more anti-gun than those of Bush. His choice for Vice President will be more anti-gun than Cheney. They’ll be more animal rights friendly. They will be less friendly to my industry. They’ll be more enviromentalist (whacko types) friendly. I hate GWB for the Iraq mess and the Patriot Act, but Kerry is far, far worse on other issues that are important to me.
Must be really boring to have your life revolve around guns.
Don’t you ever get out?
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/25 "2004-04-07T00:12:48Z")
> [@Machetero](#):
>
> They’ll be more enviromentalist (whacko types) friendly.
I guess an “environmentalist (whacko types)” are people who hold the radical idea that maybe the regulated industries shouldn’t be practically the only ones whose views are considered in writing environmental regulations (not to mention the cases where even their words have been used).
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### Author:  [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/26 "2004-04-07T00:15:16Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> Must be really boring to have your life revolve around guns.
>
> Don’t you ever get out?
Your response seems better suited to the Pit. Anyway, I listed several other things. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/27 "2004-04-07T00:18:20Z")
> [@jshore](#):
>
> Thanks for all the cites to back up your allegations here.
It can all be found here:
[http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony](http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony)
Of particular interest is this passage:
_I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, **not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.** _
This veteran takes issue with Kerry’s representations, and asks some very valid questions.
[http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12736](http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12736)
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/28 "2004-04-07T00:20:42Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#):
>
> Finally, although I am sure that more will come up as time passes and that I could think of more if I tried, on a more personal note, there is just something about the way that he looks and talks that makes me want to punch him in the face. He reminds me of that kid that we all had in school growing up that was somehow socially inept in a way that would cause other kids to wait in line to beat him up, the teachers to be vaguely repulsed by and who always smelled of milk. Truly, just looking at him and listening to him brings out my dark side.
So? The kids who line up to beat up the socially inept misfit are the ones who really **deserve** to get their bones broken. He’s usually better than they are, and I think you know it precious well.
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### Author:  [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/29 "2004-04-07T00:21:22Z")
And finally, another piece which raises some issues about Kerry’s conduct as an office, but probably not a gentleman.
[The Massachusetts Butcher](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Armstrongwilliams/aw20040405.shtml)
\*Senator John Kerry wants you to know that he participated in war crimes while serving in Vietnam.
Appearing on the Dick Cavett show in 1971, Kerry leaned toward the camera and offered this rousing confessional: I did take part in free-fire zones, I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire, I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these acts, I find out later on, are contrary to the Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg Principles, is in fact guilty."
The remarks proved a real crowd pleaser (nothing plays in politics like the first person confessional of a former sinner who has found the error of his ways). This was Kerry’s chief tact for launching his political career. Fresh back from the war, he embarked on a television tour where he confessed all manner of war crime and pleaded for redemption.
During a 1971 appearance on Meet the Press Kerry explained, “I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who. . .ordered us. . .are war criminals.” (more)\*
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### Author:  [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/30 "2004-04-07T00:22:53Z")
“So my question is: what is so bad about Kerry? Why would anyone hate, or strongly dislike, him?”
For me it’s the whole “more liberal than Teddy Kennedy” thing …
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/31 "2004-04-07T00:22:56Z")
> [@Machetero](#):
>
> Your response seems better suited to the Pit. Anyway, I listed several other things. :rolleyes:
You sure did…my bad.
How much you hate animals and the envioronment.
Sorry.
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### Author:  [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/32 "2004-04-07T00:23:09Z")
> [@jshore](#):
>
> I guess an “environmentalist (whacko types)” are people who hold the radical idea that maybe the regulated industries shouldn’t be practically the only ones whose views are considered in writing environmental regulations (not to mention the cases where even their words have been used).
Possibly. I probably should have used extreme instead of whacko. It’s more of a case by case basis. Babbit in the last administration is what I would consider a extreme enviromentalist. I am for drilling in Alaska and on the Otero Mesa in my state of NM.
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### Author:  [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/33 "2004-04-07T00:27:09Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> You sure did…my bad.
>
> How much you hate animals and the envioronment.
>
> Sorry.
Still pit material, but I don’t hate either. I do disagree and in some cases dislike animal rights activists and extreme enviromentalists. I don’t kick dogs for hell of it or pour oil down storm drains.
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/34 "2004-04-07T00:29:21Z")
> [@wonderwench](#):
>
> This veteran takes issue with Kerry’s representations, and asks some very valid questions.
>
> [http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12736](http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12736)
Well, he may take issue with them but he doesn’t seem to actually refute them. And, wouldn’t some of the gist of Kerry’s accusations be supported by the Pulitzer-prize-winning reporting that I linked to the story on?
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/35 "2004-04-07T00:31:09Z")
> [@Machetero](#):
>
> Possibly. I probably should have used extreme instead of whacko. It’s more of a case by case basis. Babbit in the last administration is what I would consider a extreme enviromentalist. I am for drilling in Alaska and on the Otero Mesa in my state of NM.
Okay, well it is fun to know what you consider “extreme” and “wacko” so we can judge for ourselves who is actually extreme and wacko…the labeler or the labelee.
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### Author:  [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/36 "2004-04-07T00:32:26Z")
> [@jshore](#):
>
> Well, he may take issue with them but he doesn’t seem to actually refute them. And, wouldn’t some of the gist of Kerry’s accusations be supported by the Pulitzer-prize-winning reporting that I linked to the story on?
A Pulitzer Prize is not an indication of truthful reporting, by any stretch of the imagination.
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### Author:  [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/37 "2004-04-07T00:37:14Z")
> [@jshore](#):
>
> Okay, well it is fun to know what you consider “extreme” and “wacko” so we can judge for ourselves who is actually extreme and wacko…the labeler or the labelee.
I’m glad that you are having fun. I’m rather dissapointed by all the extremists and the folks that buy into their propaganda. It’s bad for America (because they affect legislation).
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/38 "2004-04-07T01:02:29Z")
Heavens, **Wonder** , why stop there? Someone like yourself, someone who takes the trouble to access the only _truly_ unbiased sources for news and opinion, must be aware of the bold expose of Kerry’s direct supervision by the KGB. First Fonda, then Kerry, then Cronkite, its all there.
[http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/pacepa200402260828.asp](http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/pacepa200402260828.asp)
I am surprised such an uncomplicated patriot as yourself is unaware! And you didnt even mention his plan to force Eagle Scouts into gay marriages! And if you add up the numbers for “John Heinz Kerry”, it comes to 665, which is close enough…
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/39 "2004-04-07T01:35:44Z")
> [@Machetero](#):
>
> I’m glad that you are having fun. I’m rather dissapointed by all the extremists and the folks that buy into their propaganda. It’s bad for America (because they affect legislation).
I agree which is why I am working to try to kick the extremists out of the White House and Congress.
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/40 "2004-04-07T01:39:09Z")
> [@wonderwench](#):
>
> A Pulitzer Prize is not an indication of truthful reporting, by any stretch of the imagination.
Oh, okay, so anything that goes against our worldview must be untruthful. I see how this works now.
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> And if you add up the numbers for “John Heinz Kerry”, it comes to 665, which is close enough…
668…The neighbor of the beast! [By that standard, I guess Kerry is the guy across the street.] 😃
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