# What's so wrong with Kerry?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 6, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629 "2004-04-06T21:20:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/81 "2004-04-08T00:55:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Or else you are so used to spouting off in front of others of **your kind** …
Interesting choice of words…
Use them often?
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### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/82 "2004-04-08T01:05:28Z")
Kerry is to the right of Reeder.
😉
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/83 "2004-04-08T01:08:31Z")
> [@vanilla](#):
>
> Kerry is to the right of Reeder.
> 😉
Kucinich is to my right.
🙂
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### Author:  [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/84 "2004-04-08T01:08:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> So proofreading and charisma are biggies on your list of who to vote for?
I said I greatly disagreed with his platform. Hell, Bush’s platform would appeal more to me than Kerry’s if he had any intention of adhering to it, and that’s saying a lot. When the lesser of two evils is that bad, I look for anything positive in the superficial details. As far as those go, Kerry’s trying to out-lackluster Gore.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/85 "2004-04-08T01:16:18Z")
Here’s a question I’d like to pose to all the Kerry-bashers on this thread: Was there **any** of the nine Democratic contenders for the nomination this year, whom you would have voted for, in preference to Bush?
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### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/86 "2004-04-08T01:35:35Z")
Howard Dean
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/87 "2004-04-08T01:39:50Z")
Excellent question, **Brain Glutton**. I’ve noticed a certain group of people who will admit Bush is not great but who, when Howard Dean was “ahead,” were saying that Dean is just too nutty…someone like Kerry is a more sensible alternative. Now that Kerry is the presumptive nominee, it turns out he is too liberal and flip-floppy. So, my guess is that for this group of people…i.e., those who are fairly conservative / libertarian and are not fond of Bush but are using any excuse they can find to vote for him anyway, the best Democrat is always one of them who is not actually the frontrunner.
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/88 "2004-04-08T01:49:32Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#):
>
> On the “O’Franken Factor” today, Al Franken presented a nice debunking of the core flip flip charges against Kerry, as presented in wonderfully right-wing fashion by Sean Hannity. [Enjoy it here.](http://www.ofrankenfactor.com/) Perhaps those making the assertion that Kerry flip flops could specify a bit more precisely what they are talking about in the future.
Nice link, **Hentor**! I heartily recommend reading it.
It’s also worth reading how Brit Hume of Fox News lies with statistics!
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/89 "2004-04-08T02:22:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> …If you ever want to work on some discussion that is not a far Left circle jerk, let me know.
Should we construe this to mean that if our conversation does not meet your standards, you will boycott? That we shall wander forlorn, bereft of your gentle and avuncular admonitions?
What must be, must be. It will be hard, at first. But I must admire a principled stand, however it may impoverish our discourse, however much we may crave the stern clarity so eagerly shared by friend **Shodan**.
So let it be written, so let it be done. Go with God, **Shodan** , and peace on you.
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/90 "2004-04-08T02:25:21Z")
Day-um.
Is it raining sarcasm or what?
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### Author:  [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/91 "2004-04-08T08:28:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> This is moronic. You people either don’t realize how stupid you are sounding, or you know and don’t care. Or else you are so used to spouting off in front of others of your kind who don’t challenge your half-witted reactive Bush-bashing that you have no realization of how dumb you sound.
I see he’s gone from strawman to ad hominem. It’s the logical fallacies world tour, ladies and gentlemen.
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### Author:  [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/92 "2004-04-08T12:39:30Z")
> [@jshore](#):
>
> So, my guess is that for this group of people…i.e., those who are fairly conservative / libertarian and are not fond of Bush but are using any excuse they can find to vote for him anyway, the best Democrat is always one of them who is not actually the frontrunner.
To take this line of thought to its conclusion: For an outspoken group, the thing so wrong with Kerry is not that he is a democrat or liberal per se, but that he is a democrat who: _will probably put GWB out of the Presidency_.
That’s hardly a fair answer to the question now, is it?
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/93 "2004-04-08T12:48:53Z")
> [@blowero](#):
>
> I see he’s gone from strawman to ad hominem. It’s the logical fallacies world tour, ladies and gentlemen.
And you are the tour guide.
Pot, kettle, smoking crack, hypocritical stupidity, whatever.
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Or else you are so used to spouting off in front of others **of your kind** …
>
> Interesting choice of words…
>
> Use them often?
Yes, I occasionally use words like ‘of’, ‘your’, and ‘kind’. Which one was giving you difficulty?
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/94 "2004-04-08T13:06:41Z")
[US Presidential Candidates’ political orientations](http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html), as assessed by independent experts.
Kucinich is left wing, and Kerry sits to his right, but Kerry is still leftmost of the genuine contenders he beat.
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### Author:  [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/95 "2004-04-08T15:14:16Z")
> [@Apos](#):
>
> And that’s my problem with him: he’s a lousy campaigner.
The problem is that Bush’s Brain, Karl Rove, is a better campaigner. Who else would run campaign ads against a Democratic candidate during the primarys.
The GOP helped nominate him and this thread tells why.
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### Author:  [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/96 "2004-04-08T16:58:55Z")
> [@blowero](#):
>
> How so?
>
> Oh, so you’re in a militia?😉
>
> Yes, clean air, potable water, protecting what little wilderness we have left, and not torturing animals is pretty “extremist”, isn’t it?
>
> Dude, Kerry is NOT left-wing. Not even close. Nader, maybe. Kucinich, maybe. Sharpton, maybe. Kerry? No. If you would change your vote because some liberals on an internet message board pissed you off, that doesn’t say much for your critical reasoning skills. In all honesty, though, Bush sounds like just the kind of guy for you. You don’t get much more right-wing than Bush. If you want to have assault weapons, allow big business to plunder the economy with scant reprisals, and undo all the progress that’s ever been made in protecting the environment, he’s definitely the guy to do it. It’s unbelievable to me that anyone would _want_ that, but I guess everyone’s entitled to his opinion.
Torturing animals? People demand advanced medicines but expect pharma companies to deliver them safe for human use, yet try and use lab animals to test them and you get protests up the wazoo. As if working under FDA, OSHA and NRA restrictions aren’t a nightmare as it is. Sheesh, not everybody can have their way, sometimes a nice comprimise would be appreciated. Are we going to get that with MORE regulation? Noooo. It’s going to be more tightrope walking, trying to comply with sometimes almost conflicting regulations and try and make a profit (but not too much, because Old Mr. Farnsworth somehow has an inalienable right to get medication that fits his budget).
I don’t like Kerry because he’s gong to make my life harder. That’s not what I want for me and my family.
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### Author:  [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/97 "2004-04-08T17:17:28Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#):
>
> Torturing animals? People demand advanced medicines but expect pharma companies to deliver them safe for human use
Ah, I presume you work for the pharma tech industry?
Yea, that OSHA is a pain in the ass. Don’t know why we still have it.
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### Author:  [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/98 "2004-04-08T17:43:44Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#):
>
> Torturing animals? People demand advanced medicines but expect pharma companies to deliver them safe for human use, yet try and use lab animals to test them and you get protests up the wazoo. As if working under FDA, OSHA and NRA restrictions aren’t a nightmare as it is. Sheesh, not everybody can have their way, sometimes a nice comprimise would be appreciated. Are we going to get that with MORE regulation? Noooo. It’s going to be more tightrope walking, trying to comply with sometimes almost conflicting regulations and try and make a profit (but not too much, because Old Mr. Farnsworth somehow has an inalienable right to get medication that fits his budget).
I don’t think I ever said I wanted _more_ regulations. In fact, I didn’t even know this was a hot-button issue right now. I really don’t recall _any_ of the candidates mentioning animal rights at all. I was really just making a quip in response to Machetero’s? comment that he was against animal rights.
The main concern for me on the issue is the _unneccessary_ testing of animals, especially by the cosmetics industry. But you seem to have very strong feelings about it, so I’d be curious to know exactly which regulations are preventing you from testing advanced medicines, and which medicines are permanently unavailable to the public due to inability to test them. If this regulation problem is really as egregious as you make it out to be, there must be a long list of excellent medications that the public is forever barred from using, right? Here’s your chance to get the word out.
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### Author:  [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/99 "2004-04-08T17:52:50Z")
> [@jshore](#):
>
> Excellent question, **Brain Glutton**. I’ve noticed a certain group of people who will admit Bush is not great but who, when Howard Dean was “ahead,” were saying that Dean is just too nutty…someone like Kerry is a more sensible alternative. Now that Kerry is the presumptive nominee, it turns out he is too liberal and flip-floppy. So, my guess is that for this group of people…i.e., those who are fairly conservative / libertarian and are not fond of Bush but are using any excuse they can find to vote for him anyway, the best Democrat is always one of them who is not actually the frontrunner.
Hmmm…that would explain why Kerry is all of a sudden “more liberal” than Kucinich :eek:, when that was clearly not true before the primaries. I can’t imagine that, had Kucinich somehow won the primaries, that Repulicans wouldn’t be citing his proposed “Department of Peace”, and positioning him somewhere to the left of Karl Marx.😃 But somehow, Kerry is now _more_ liberal than that. Hilarious.
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### Author:  [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-wrong-with-kerry/238629/100 "2004-04-08T17:59:33Z")
> [@Zagadka](#):
>
> Ah, I presume you work for the pharma tech industry?
>
> Yea, that OSHA is a pain in the ass. Don’t know why we still have it.
See, that’s the kind of one-size fits all response that is problematic. I work in a very atypical workplace and sometimes exceptions and exemptions might make things a bit easier, but too often the inflexibility of government regulations and organizations make that impossible. Christ, we have bald people who have to wear hair nets and OSHA has a fit about lead despite the fact we have gamma radiation all around. Which do you think is the worse of two evils? I’ll take limited lead exposure for less gamma exposure, thank you very much.
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