# What's the average kill time for spam posts on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 18, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932 "2017-08-18T01:02:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/21 "2017-08-21T16:17:15Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > [Or…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg2oFuURWIc) > > How YOU doin’? Back off! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/22 "2017-08-21T19:43:02Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Sometimes I ban people while they are registering. “while”? Can you see a registrant’s entries before they formally create the account? That sounds like more like a keystroke logger or screen monitor. I wasn’t aware vBulletin had such a feature. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/23 "2017-08-21T19:48:41Z")
I’m sure he means between when the account is created and the account is activated. So the user would have a status of “Registered User” instead of “Guest” or “(Charter) Member”. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/24 "2017-08-21T19:59:25Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I’m sure he means between when the account is created and the account is activated. So the user would have a status of “Registered User” instead of “Guest” or “(Charter) Member”. Yes, this. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/25 "2017-08-22T01:05:24Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Maybe the reason for those actions is hidden in the vast spam world of practices, that is, I doubt if spammers tailor their actions so specifically to us or any other site. If a procedure works for many (or they think it will), they apply it to all without discrimination. I’m having trouble imagining how disguising spam as some other kind of spam would ever work. > [@](#): > > I also think the spammers aren’t checking on their work or determining successes as a guide to future action; if they were, they would ignore us as not worth the effort. This appears to be the way telephone scammers work now; In spite of never, ever, making any “sales” from my phone, they just keep calling the same unproductive phone numbers. They have a loss on every call, but they make it up in the volume. One would think. However, they keep changing the way they try to disguise spam. Sometimes they use complete copies of thread titles, sometimes partial copies, sometimes a string of words that sort of make sense. Now they are disguising spam as spam, something I have never seen them do before. They also change the pattern of their usernames. They maintain the same pattern for a few weeks, then change to another. One would think that if they weren’t responding at all, they would simply chose a method that’s the least effort and stick to it. But they don’t. (I say “they,” but I have the impression that the streaming spam is coming from maybe three or four spammers at any one time, based on the variance between styles.) **engineer** has remarked that these spammers seem to put as much effort into it as a real job. They don’t appear to me to just using easiest method. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/26 "2017-08-22T01:54:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > One would think. However, they keep changing the way they try to disguise spam. Sometimes they use complete copies of thread titles, sometimes partial copies, sometimes a string of words that sort of make sense. Now they are disguising spam as spam, something I have never seen them do before. They also change the pattern of their usernames. They maintain the same pattern for a few weeks, then change to another. One would think that if they weren’t responding at all, they would simply chose a method that’s the least effort and stick to it. But they don’t. (I say “they,” but I have the impression that the streaming spam is coming from maybe three or four spammers at any one time, based on the variance between styles.) > > **engineer** has remarked that these spammers seem to put as much effort into it as a real job. They don’t appear to me to just using easiest method. I suspect that the people at the bottom end actually doing the work don’t much care about results, they just do what they are told. So if they get paid per post on a message board, then they don’t really care if it’s up there for two weeks or two seconds. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/27 "2017-08-22T02:28:23Z")
The funny part – they sometimes work, I once happened to click on a title that listed lived streaming sports, and at the moment, I was having connection problems with the site I normally went for sports streaming. So I tried out the one pitched in the spam, and it was alright, and it became my go-to site for a while, until I resolved problems elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/28 "2017-08-22T18:13:49Z")
Kudos to our ever-vigilant mods for daily protecting us from a tsunami of tspam. > [@Colibri](#): > > For some reason known only to themselves, the streaming spammers recently have been making their posts even easier to recognize. > > …But now they have started “disguising” spam as a different kind of spam. The title advertises smartphones or other products, but the post itself contains streaming links. Why they think we’ll be able to detect ads for phones less quickly I can’t figure out. The would be better off just titling them “Get your streaming links here!” Shhh - don’t reveal your spamkill secrets! > [@Colibri](#): > > …Now they are disguising spam as spam, something I have never seen them do before… U-Boat captain to Royal Navy destroyer captain: “Oh, _definitely_, yes, sir, this is a U-boat. No question. Nothing to worry about, though!” Depth charges away… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/29 "2017-08-22T20:00:46Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I suspect that the people at the bottom end actually doing the work don’t much care about results, they just do what they are told. So if they get paid per post on a message board, then they don’t really care if it’s up there for two weeks or two seconds. I’m sure they don’t care how long the spam is up, because if they did they wouldn’t post it here. But if they are paid by the number of posts they make, they should care about how many they can get off before we ban them and they need to generate a new username and e-mail. Right now, they rarely get to make more than a single post before we ban that account. (I think individual spammers rarely make more than 5-10 posts here in a day.) Now each username and email is usually only a minor variation on the previous one, but still it takes a little time. If they are just paid on volume, they should prefer sites that don’t ban so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/30 "2017-08-23T03:07:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m sure they don’t care how long the spam is up, because if they did they wouldn’t post it here. But if they are paid by the number of posts they make, they should care about how many they can get off before we ban them and they need to generate a new username and e-mail… You assume that conventional market forces are at work and the unprofitable will be dropped. I don’t think that works in the spam world, as evidenced by the repeated calls to my phones, phone numbers which are 100% unrewarding to the spammers. Indeed, any spam call to my phones will result in a negative reward, since I will use their time and money as much as possible. Not only do they get no sales; they increase their expenses. Yet they continue to call and lose money. I don’t know why. There must be some other factor we aren’t considering. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/31 "2017-08-23T04:13:16Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > You assume that conventional market forces are at work and the unprofitable will be dropped. I don’t think that works in the spam world, as evidenced by the repeated calls to my phones, phone numbers which are 100% unrewarding to the spammers. Indeed, any spam call to my phones will result in a negative reward, since I will use their time and money as much as possible. Not only do they get no sales; they increase their expenses. Yet they continue to call and lose money. > > I don’t know why. There must be some other factor we aren’t considering. That factor would be disorganisation and apathy. There are presumably heaps of lists going around with your number on. Even if your number gets taken off one it remains on others. And is there much reward for a low paid apathetic spammer to take you off a list? Do they care? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/32 "2017-08-23T04:31:10Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > You assume that conventional market forces are at work and the unprofitable will be dropped. I don’t think that works in the spam world, as evidenced by the repeated calls to my phones, phone numbers which are 100% unrewarding to the spammers. Indeed, any spam call to my phones will result in a negative reward, since I will use their time and money as much as possible. Not only do they get no sales; they increase their expenses. Yet they continue to call and lose money. Do the same individual spammers call you back hundreds of times? Do you block their numbers so that every single call has to be made from a new phone number under a new name? Because as far as I can tell from the pattern of usernames, emails, and other evidence, some individual spammers have generated hundreds of them just for this site. The situation isn’t really comparable, because as has been pointed out your phone number may be on many lists and it may not be the same spammers involved. > [@](#): > > I don’t know why. There must be some other factor we aren’t considering. I’m just nonplussed that they could be paid enough per spam post to make all their effort worthwhile even given how low wages in Bangladesh are. I’m also puzzled by why they keep coming here when there are so many other sites where you can post much more spam with less effort. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/33 "2017-08-23T04:51:35Z")
There’s a spam post in Cafe Society that’s been lingering around since early this morning, though, that should be taken care of. Yes, it’s been reported. > **[Amy Wong's curse words: real?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=530382)** > > I just caught Into The Wild Green Yonder on broadcast television (most of it anyway; I’m not finding these Futurama movies all that watchable). I heard Leo Wong, Amy’s dad, using the same set of Chinese curse words that Amy has used in the past. It... ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/34 "2017-08-23T05:35:01Z")
What was that now? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/35 "2017-08-23T06:22:32Z")
Thank you, **Bone**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/36 "2017-08-23T09:18:07Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > That factor would be disorganisation and apathy. There are presumably heaps of lists going around with your number on. Even if your number gets taken off one it remains on others. And is there much reward for a low paid apathetic spammer to take you off a list? Do they care? I have no proof, but I think spammers nowadays do not use lists and do not add or subtract numbers from one. They just generate all possible numbers and call each, sometimes the same one more than once per day. Even if they have my number on a list, how did it get there? A smart business would prune the list of all but suckers and pushovers. Why keep calling the ones least likely to cough up the dough? > [@Colibri](#): > > Do the same individual spammers call you back hundreds of times? Do you block their numbers so that every single call has to be made from a new phone number under a new name? Because as far as I can tell from the pattern of usernames, emails, and other evidence, some individual spammers have generated hundreds of them just for this site. I don’t block anything, since I am effectively running a honeypot, and my intention is to analyse what’s going on. My numbers are on the national and state DNC lists, and this is proof that those lists are ignored. > [@](#): > > The situation isn’t really comparable, because as has been pointed out your phone number may be on many lists and it may not be the same spammers involved. Again, no proof, but I keep track of distinguishing characteristics of each spammer, and it looks like 90% of the calls come from 3 sources or less, at least two of which are in India or Pakistan. > [@](#): > > I’m just nonplussed that they could be paid enough per spam post to make all their effort worthwhile even given how low wages in Bangladesh are. I’m also puzzled by why they keep coming here when there are so many other sites where you can post much more spam with less effort. We need to think like a spammer to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/37 "2017-08-23T15:33:53Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I have no proof, but I think spammers nowadays do not use lists and do not add or subtract numbers from one. They just generate all possible numbers and call each, sometimes the same one more than once per day. > > Even if they have my number on a list, how did it get there? A smart business would prune the list of all but suckers and pushovers. Why keep calling the ones least likely to cough up the dough? If the cost per call is low enough, it may be more cost efficient not to track who responds or to take a name off a list. > [@](#): > > I don’t block anything, since I am effectively running a honeypot, and my intention is to analyse what’s going on. Then your situation is not comparable to what goes on here. > [@](#): > > Again, no proof, but I keep track of distinguishing characteristics of each spammer, and it looks like 90% of the calls come from 3 sources or less, at least two of which are in India or Pakistan. By “sources,” do you mean individuals? > [@](#): > > We need to think like a spammer to find out. And how would that be? You haven’t suggested any plausible reason for the behavior we see here. I have already noted that it is a puzzlement. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/38 "2017-08-23T15:55:14Z")
The rationale for spam is generally that you can send out hundreds or thousands of identical messages at a very low cost per message, so a hit rate of one in a thousand or less is acceptable. The odd thing here is that the streaming spammers are spending at least a couple of minutes to generate each spam post on this site. The time cost per message must is very high compared to other strategies. And time is money, even in Bangladesh. After being banned, they have to: -Generate a new username. As I said, this is usually a minor variant but it still takes a little time. -Obtain a new email address. Again, a minor variant, but it takes some time. -Register for the site, and wait for the confirmation email. -Generate a new thread title. These are not boilerplate. The titles at least are tailored individually for this site, since they often copy or partially copy existing titles. Even the ones that don’t are usually unique to each thread. And they change the style of titles they use every few weeks at least. -Generate a new OP. This is often just a copy of the title, so it doesn’t take much time. -Edit the post to include the streaming links. This is strategy against sites that don’t permit links in the first few posts by a poster. The links differ between posts and usually change daily, so most messages seem to be composed individually rather than just being copy-pasted. I’m just very curious to know how much they are paid for each post, and the economic model that finds this profitable. If we assume that each post here takes two minutes to make (including all the steps I outlined above) and that one in one thousand results in a response, then that’s one response per 2,000 minutes of time, or 33 hours, or about four 8-hour working days. Even if we allow a shorter time per post, and assume a greater response rate, you still get a response rate of a less than one per eight hour day. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/39 "2017-08-23T16:00:33Z")
I always assumed they were bots, not actual people clicking keyboards. Nothing they do can’t be done by bots. Our catchpa isn’t that difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932/40 "2017-08-23T16:06:18Z")
The other thing is that these guys appear to be trying to take evasive action, but those actions are almost entirely ineffective. If they don’t care about the spam being deleted quickly, why try to disguise it at all? If they titled it “Get your Streaming Spam here,” it would probably get more clicks from people who are interested in streaming spam, but wouldn’t be deleted any more quickly than a title advertising smartphones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-average-kill-time-for-spam-posts-on-this-board/793932.md?page=3)