# What's the bare minimum of freedom needed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716 "2021-06-06T17:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716/121 "2021-06-11T20:04:57Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Bodily autonomy is the closest to being absolute that I can think of. The only restriction that I can think of that would be reasonable would be abortion in the 3rd trimester. Hahaha, NO. The only third trimester abortion you get a say in is the one inside YOUR uterus. Otherwise, none of your or anybody else’s business. Hard pass. Leave women’s innards alone. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716/122 "2021-06-11T20:14:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Clearly, not everyone agrees with statements like “rights are not granted, they exist.” I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this point. Rights that you cannot exercise don’t exist. There is no right to life, no right to liberty, obviously no right to bear arms, that’s intrinsic to being a living thing or a human. Throughout much of history, lords and royalty had the “right” to take away any of that at a whim. North Koreans, to reuse an obvious modern example, don’t have any of those rights, not even bodily autonomy. That’s not to say that we cannot discuss which rights are needed to have “freedom”; it just argues against the idea that some rights are just there, granted by nature or a creator or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716/123 "2021-06-11T20:43:51Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this point. Rights that you cannot exercise don’t exist. My position is that a right has to matter. If a right has no effect on your life, what difference does it make whether it exists or not? If I say “I have a right to life because the Creator gave it to me” what difference does it make whether I’m alive because of a Creator or because of the random laws of physics? The Creator has no more apparent interest in me being alive than the random laws of physics do. This is why I feel rights are better seen as social constructs. If I live in a society that says I have a right to life, then I can expect that my society will take some actions that will actually affect whether I’m alive or dead. This is a situation where I can see a difference between having a right and not having a right. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716/124 "2021-06-11T22:26:08Z")
Because one of those things is not like the others. Your upbringing and philosophical musings, sure. How do genetics come into play? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716/125 "2021-06-11T23:00:55Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How do genetics come into play? Natural selection. No creator needed for individuals that don’t go around killing others to be more successful at passing on their genes. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716/126 "2021-06-12T02:15:29Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Because one of those things is not like the others. Your upbringing and philosophical musings, sure. How do genetics come into play? Genetics defines the basic structure of my brain. Exactly how much is nature and how much is nurture is debatable, but this is not scientifically controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716/127 "2021-06-12T03:02:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > > > How do genetics come into play? > > Natural selection. No creator needed for individuals that don’t go around killing others to be more successful at passing on their genes. I was going to ask the same question. And I’ll note you’ve given a good answer. Genetics undoubtedly do play a role in sociability. Our ancestors who could work well with a group of other people (which includes following the rules of their group) must have had better breeding success than loners and outlaws. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-bare-minimum-of-freedom-needed/943716.md?page=6)