# What's the biblical restriction on usury? Is it still in effect? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 10, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561 "2009-09-10T15:28:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Never\_Say\_Dice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee59a6/32.png) [@Never\_Say\_Dice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Say_Dice)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/1 "2009-09-10T15:28:34Z")
I was watching a PBS special on money, and they said the bible keeps Jews from lending money at interest to other Jews, but not Christians. And that Christians could not loan money at interest to anybody. Then the Medicis invented the ruse of lending at one currency and getting paid back in another and charging a conversion fee instead of interest. Then Italian municipalities issued bonds to pay for their armies, requiring people buy them, and returning interest on the premise that if the program wasn’t optional then it wasn’t a sin. So, what is that part of the bible, and is it still there? How do people get around it? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/2 "2009-09-10T15:48:14Z")
> [@Never\_Say\_Dice](#): > > I was watching a PBS special on money, and they said the bible keeps Jews from lending money at interest to other Jews, but not Christians. And that Christians could not loan money at interest to anybody. Then the Medicis invented the ruse of lending at one currency and getting paid back in another and charging a conversion fee instead of interest. Then Italian municipalities issued bonds to pay for their armies, requiring people buy them, and returning interest on the premise that if the program wasn’t optional then it wasn’t a sin. > > So, what is that part of the bible, and is it still there? How do people get around it? Generally speaking, Orthodox Jews will not lend/borrow money at interest with other Jews (Orthodox or not). There is no restriction regarding borrowing/lending with non-Jews. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/3 "2009-09-10T15:55:05Z")
You want the verses? > **[Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 22:25 - Contemporary English Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2B22:25&version=CEV)** > > Don't charge interest when you lend money to any of my people who are in need. Here is the one allowing Jews to charge non-Jews interest. > **[Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 23:20 - Contemporary English Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2B23:20&version=CEV)** > > You can charge a foreigner interest. But if you charge other Israelites interest, the Lord your God will not let you be successful in the land you are about to take. On the other hand, Jesus tells a parable where it seems He accepts that interest on business transactions is not only allowed, but laudable - > **[Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25:27 - Contemporary English Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2B25:27&version=CEV)** > > You could have at least put my money in the bank, so I could have earned interest on it.” ISTM that the distinction is between a personal loan and a business loan. It is acceptable to loan at interest in a business context, but not to take advantage of a personal relationship to exploit. I don’t think they had any concept of bankruptcy in the modern sense - debtors could be sold as slaves. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/4 "2009-09-10T20:06:31Z")
Shodan: > [@](#): > > ISTM that the distinction is between a personal loan and a business loan. It is acceptable to loan at interest in a business context, but not to take advantage of a personal relationship to exploit. I don’t think they had any concept of bankruptcy in the modern sense - debtors could be sold as slaves. The allowability of the “business loan” is that it’s seen as a form of investment rather than of loan - one lends the businessman money in the hopes that the borrower will invest it well on his behalf in the business. The terms of the transaction must reflect this. Any actual loan between Jews, whether for business or personal reasons, must be interest free. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/5 "2009-09-10T20:15:41Z")
This was recently asked in another message board I frequent: [http://covenant-communion.net/index.php/forums/viewthread/998/](http://covenant-communion.net/index.php/forums/viewthread/998/) There was no definitive consensus, but I thought the following was interesting: > [@Kevin Montgomery](#): > > It comes from the Latin word usura, literally “use, enjoyment” and metaphorically “interest paid for money borrowed,” from the noun usus, “use,” and the verb utor, “to use, make use of, to employ.” > > Now here is what is says in Leviticus and Deuteronomy [using NRSV trans.]: > Lev. 25:35-37 “35If any of your kin fall into difficulty and become dependent on you, you shall support them; they shall live with you as though resident aliens. 36Do not take interest in advance or otherwise make a profit from them, but fear your God; let them live with you. 37You shall not lend them your money at interest taken in advance, or provide them food at a profit.” > > Deut. 23:19-20 “19You shall not charge interest on loans to another Israelite, interest on money, interest on provisions, interest on anything that is lent. 20On loans to a foreigner you may charge interest, but on loans to another Israelite you may not charge interest, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all your undertakings in the land that you are about to enter and possess.” > > The Leviticus passage only refers to lending to one’s kin. Deuteronomy, however, says that one should not charge interest for loans to other Israelites, but one can with Gentiles. How does this apply to Christians? Taken literally, it might be taken to say that we should not charge interest on loans to Jews. That, however, is not an interpretation I’ve ever heard. Now if the wall between Jew and Gentile has been taken down and if the Church is considered to be the New Israel, then one might argue that Christians should lend at interest to other Christians. > > Whatever the case, what seems to be lying behind the prohibition. To me at least it seems like there is definitely the feeling that the charging of interest exploits the poor. For example, in Nehemiah 5:1-13, the people complain that they are having to borrow in order to get food during a famine and to pay the king’s taxes. Many are losing their farms and are even being sold into slavery to pay their debts. Nehemiah then tells the nobles and officials (including himself) to stop taking interest and to return both the interest received and the seized property. It seems fairly clear that the issue is one of justice regarding those less fortunate and that the charging of interest could be considered tanatamount to theft. > > One can also find references in Psalm 5 and Ezekiel 18 and 22. > > In short, the OT, taken on its own, seems to prohibit the charging of interest on loans to other Israelites and especially to one’s own kin. The question then is this: How do we as Christians apply these passages to ourselves? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/6 "2009-09-10T20:28:30Z")
> [@Never\_Say\_Dice](#): > > I was watching a PBS special on money, and they said the bible keeps Jews from lending money at interest to other Jews, but not Christians. And that Christians could not loan money at interest to anybody. Since this has been answered, I’m wondering about this. How can the Bible say anything about what Christians can do, or what Jews can do to Christians? Didn’t Christianity not exist at the time the Bible was written? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/7 "2009-09-10T22:04:41Z")
Well, Christianity existed at the time that the New Testament was written, and Christians would also interpret passages in the Old Testament (which was written before Christianity came around), and apply certain moral standards to them. As for the bible itself saying what Jews can do to Christians, obviously it doesn’t, but there are parts that talk about how Jews should treat non-Jews, and Christians are part of the general category of “non-Jews”. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@Brainiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/8 "2009-09-11T00:46:35Z")
My guess is they “get around it” by a process known as sin. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/9 "2009-09-11T01:30:46Z")
My understanding is that in some Islamic societies the prohibition against lending with interest is still taken quite seriously. They have banking practices that don’t explicitly involve lending for interest, but in effect do. Somebody wants to buy a car that sells for $15,000. The bank buys the car (for $15k) and sells it to them for $20,000, but lets them pay it off over the course of five years, “interest-free”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/10 "2009-09-11T12:54:51Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Shodan: > > The allowability of the “business loan” is that it’s seen as a form of investment rather than of loan - one lends the businessman money in the hopes that the borrower will invest it well on his behalf in the business. The terms of the transaction must reflect this. Any actual loan between Jews, whether for business or personal reasons, must be interest free. Thanks for your response. This is pretty much what I would expect that Jesus, who is, after all, Jewish, would explain it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/11 "2009-09-11T15:53:30Z")
> **[Usury](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury)** > > Usury (/ˈjuːʒəri/) is the practice of making unethical or immoral monetary loans that unfairly enrich the lender. The term may be used in a moral sense—condemning taking advantage of others' misfortunes—or in a legal sense, where an interest rate is charged in excess of the maximum rate that is allowed by law. A loan may be considered usurious because of excessive or abusive interest rates or other factors defined by the laws of a state. Someone who practices usury can be called a usurer, b In ... ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/12 "2009-09-11T16:00:24Z")
Given what was stated above how do banks operate in Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Say\_Dice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee59a6/32.png) [@Never\_Say\_Dice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Say_Dice)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/13 "2009-09-11T18:41:06Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > [Usury - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury) > …The pivotal change in the English-speaking world seems to have come with the permission to charge interest on lent money: particularly the Act ‘In restraint of usury’ of Henry VIII in England in 1545. So our ability to usur was bestowed by Henry VIII? And some people say he’s all bad. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/14 "2009-09-11T18:47:18Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Given what was stated above how do banks operate in Israel? Two possibilities: 1. The bank doesn’t follow Jewish law (it’s not required in Israel) 2. It is viewed as a from of investment, as **cmkeller** mentioned above\*. Zev Steinhardt - Note: The laws of lending with interest and heter iska (which is what Chaim is referring to above) are very complex and my familiarity with them is minimal at best. I’m not really equipped to answer question such as how it works halachically. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/15 "2009-09-12T15:25:13Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Given what was stated above how do banks operate in Israel? > **[Loans and interest in Judaism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heter_iska)** > > The subject of loans and interest in Judaism has a long and complex history. In the Hebrew Bible, the Book of Ezekiel classifies the charging of interest among the worst sins, denouncing it as an abomination and metaphorically portraying usurers as people who have shed the borrower's blood. (See Ezekiel 18:13 and 18:17.) The Talmud dwells on Ezekiel's condemnation of charging interest. > The Torah and Talmud encourage lending money without interest. But the halakha (Jewish law) that prescribes int... ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/16 "2009-09-12T16:15:33Z")
> [@Deuteronomy](#): > > You shall not charge interest on loans to another Israelite, interest on money, interest on provisions, interest on anything that is lent. Seems to prohibit rent too, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/17 "2009-09-12T16:21:55Z")
I imagine back in the day, every “lender” was a loan shark. Today we’re more civilized, such as having the concept of bankruptcy for example (ie, screw you, that’s your cost of doing business). Yet lending can still be unfair. For example, mortgages. If you default on your mortgage, you don’t just owe the bank money, or the money plus reasonable penalty. You have to give up the whole house, including any money you’ve already paid off for the thing. That certainly is a bonus, and a big reason the banks were so eager to hand out mortgages to people who couldn’t pay them. Today we also have credit cards, which start off by offering reasonable rates but then, upon certain triggers meant to convince you that “it’s your fault,” quickly switch into loan shark mode. A less known example is perhaps the buzzy concept of “microlending.” It is hailed as empowering the third world with small-business loans, but practitioners are being accused of charging excessive rates – upwards of 100%. Despite all our progress, the rub of lending for interest hasn’t gone away. On the one hand, it is an absolutely vital economic activity. On the other, it is so easy to exploit it unfairly. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/18 "2009-09-12T17:04:37Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > … For example, mortgages. If you default on your mortgage, you don’t just owe the bank money, or the money plus reasonable penalty. You have to give up the whole house, including any money you’ve already paid off for the thing. That certainly is a bonus, and a big reason the banks were so eager to hand out mortgages to people who couldn’t pay them. You don’t seem to understand how foreclosure works. The bank forces a sale of the home so that the mortgage can be paid that way (since it would appear that the borrower isn’t going to repay it himself). If the house sells for more money than the amount owed on the mortgage, the homeowner gets that money. In addition, saving that you give up “any money you’ve already paid off for the thing” is a very odd way of phrasing things. You paid off part of the mortgage, so the bank has reduced the amount of the mortgage due. They’re not keeping anything that is yours. If you borrow $200,000 on a house, pay $20,000 and then sell the house in foreclosure for $190,000 you will get $10,000 in your pocket. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/19 "2009-09-12T17:46:38Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Given what was stated above how do banks operate in Israel? Banks in Israel operate the same way as banks everywhere else. If you’re interested, here’s the website to Bank Leumi, which is Israel’s largest commercial bank: > **[Homepage - Bank Leumi](https://www.leumi.co.il/en)** > > Bank Leumi is Israel's leading bank, providing a wide range financial services which are backed up by the highest standards and uncompromised professionalism. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561/20 "2009-09-12T17:56:36Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > You don’t seem to understand how foreclosure works. The bank forces a sale of the home so that the mortgage can be paid that way (since it would appear that the borrower isn’t going to repay it himself). If the house sells for more money than the amount owed on the mortgage, the homeowner gets that money. If the house is worth more than you owe on it, you wouldn’t be in foreclosure - you’d just sell it. > [@dracoi](#): > > In addition, saving that you give up “any money you’ve already paid off for the thing” is a very odd way of phrasing things. You paid off part of the mortgage, so the bank has reduced the amount of the mortgage due. They’re not keeping anything that is yours. If you borrow $200,000 on a house, pay $20,000 and then sell the house in foreclosure for $190,000 you will get $10,000 in your pocket. Except that, as soon as you borrow $200,000, you owe more like $400,000 according to the terms of the loan. Once you pay $20,000, you probably still owe pretty close to what you borrowed - in some cases you’ll still owe exactly what you borrowed, in some cases you’ll owe more. We made over $60,000 in payments on our last mortgage and still owed every dime of the original loan amount when we sold. How much money do you think they spent “servicing” that loan? A couple dollars in payroll, total, maybe. It was essentially free money for them. Multiply that times most homeowners nationwide. It’s no wonder the system collapsed. The scary thing is that it’s rebuilding itself as essentially the same system, but with far less competition. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-biblical-restriction-on-usury-is-it-still-in-effect/509561.md?page=2)