# What's the Big Deal About Calculus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 4, 2016, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624 "2016-10-04T10:50:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/41 "2016-10-05T14:01:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wow, that would be horrible. I’ve never heard of a calc course leading off with the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus, and I can’t even imagine how it would be possible. Surely you have to introduce both derivatives and integrals before you can introduce the FTC, and you have to introduce limits before you can do either. When I took calculus, proving the FTC was the _last_ thing we did in the class. Agreed. I learned calculus at a small liberal art college. First, we learned about functions, then limits, then derivatives, then integrals, then the fundamental theorem. Derivatives were explained as the limit of the slope of a function at a single point. Integrals were the limit of the area under a function. It seemed very intuitive to me. I never took a trigonometry class, but didn’t really need it for calculus, except for trying to figure out what the various trig functions actually were. I think many students would benefit from learning calculus before trig. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/42 "2016-10-05T14:06:12Z")
I’ve recently read [articles about a study](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/07/14/calculus-apprehensions-may-steer-women-away-from-science-careers/) showing that women are significantly more likely than men to be discouraged from pursuing STEM majors after attempting Calculus I and feeling they don’t understand it—an issue of low confidence. > [@](#): > > Fewer than one in five of the students who chose not to persist had grades too low to continue (in either gender). But among intended STEM majors, women were more than twice as likely as men to agree with the statement “I do not believe I understand the ideas of Calculus I well enough to take Calculus II.” ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/43 "2016-10-05T15:33:04Z")
If you approach it the right way, you can even [teach calculus to 5 year olds](http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/5-year-olds-can-learn-calculus/284124/). Think about building a shape with big blocks, then building it with smaller and smaller blocks. Calculus is just a tool for thinking about that process with infinitely small blocks. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy\_Biro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@Cliffy\_Biro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy_Biro)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/44 "2016-10-08T16:09:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I tried to learn calculus but I started the class late and was behind everyone else and they kept learning faster and faster and I could never catch up. Never mind. If you had set some target gap between your understanding and theirs, let’s call it epsilon, then no matter how narrow that target was I’m sure there would have come a time when the gap was smaller than it. ---
**Author:** ![Tropism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@Tropism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tropism)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/45 "2016-10-08T16:20:08Z")
> [@Cliffy\_Biro](#): > > Never mind. If you had set some target gap between your understanding and theirs, let’s call it epsilon, then no matter how narrow that target was I’m sure there would have come a time when the gap was smaller than it. ;)😉 I see what you did there. In all reality, the way calculus is taught in university is similar to the way trig, algebra, etc. are taught in high school. All are relatively intuitive and can be mastered through simply practicing. After all, pretty much every college student in the world takes some level of calculus, so it can’t be too crazy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/46 "2016-10-08T17:19:58Z")
> [@Tropism](#): > > ;)😉 I see what you did there. In all reality, the way calculus is taught in university is similar to the way trig, algebra, etc. are taught in high school. All are relatively intuitive and can be mastered through simply practicing. > > After all, pretty much every college student in the world takes some level of calculus, so it can’t be too crazy. I’d be shocked if even 50% of US college students took Calculus. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/47 "2016-10-08T18:58:08Z")
> [@Cliffy\_Biro](#): > > Never mind. If you had set some target gap between your understanding and theirs, let’s call it epsilon, then no matter how narrow that target was I’m sure there would have come a time when the gap was smaller than it. But to do that, he’d have to have had some way of calculating the rate of change the rest of the class’ learning was experiencing, and . . . well . . . ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/48 "2016-10-08T19:18:44Z")
Have any of you used calculus outside of school? I havent. Even working as a wireless engineer, I just had formulas to use instead of doing actual calculus. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/49 "2016-10-08T19:24:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’d be shocked if even 50% of US college students took Calculus. Maybe not 50% of students but if you download the degrees awarded more than 50% of graduates should require calculus, obviously I don’t know the degree requirements. > **[Bachelor's degrees conferred by degree-granting institutions, by field of...](https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_313.asp)** > > The primary purpose of the Digest of Education Statistics is to provide a compilation of statistical information covering the broad field of American education from prekindergarten through graduate school. The Digest includes a selection of data from... But this is ~ .54 calc/non-calc degrees. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/50 "2016-10-08T19:30:42Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Have any of you used calculus outside of school? I havent. Even working as a wireless engineer, I just had formulas to use instead of doing actual calculus. I would bet that you are with the inverse square law, either with tools or by practice and not even realizing you are using calculus. I would guess you are just not using the types you found painful in school. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/51 "2016-10-09T04:58:15Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Have any of you used calculus outside of school? I havent. Even working as a wireless engineer, I just had formulas to use instead of doing actual calculus. I have for a few problems. Like minimizing weight of a cylinder of constant volume as a function of wall and end cap thicknesses. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/52 "2016-10-09T05:51:42Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > As I understand it, Isaac Newton discovered it, in the 17th or 18th century. Late 17th. And Leibniz did it first ! ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/53 "2016-10-09T10:44:07Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Late 17th. And Leibniz did it first ! That is a bold statement and one not yet proven. I will agree that Leibniz published before Newton, but that’s not quite the same thing as inventing it. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/54 "2016-10-09T11:25:54Z")
When I took calculus, the teacher read us the following poem on the first day of the class. In a fairly simple image, it encapsulates the concept of infinitesimals, fundamental to calculus. I’ve never forgotten it: _“I know that little-bits are small. But a lot of little-bits is ALL.”_ \*“Will you have some pie?” Said Jane. Said I, “Well just a little. Just a bit.” But I found when I had eaten it That just one little-bit wouldn’t do. So I told Jane to make it two. Then was I happy with what I got? Well, little-bits can’t make a lot. For little-bits are small, you see. So I told Jane to make it three. Three little-bits are not much more Than two. So I said, "Make it four. And I ate them up. Then asked for five. Then six. Till Jane said “Sakes alive, Here are TWO MORE and that makes . If you don’t STOP you’ll eat the plate!” “Eight little-bits,” I said are fine. But would you care to make it nine?" Said Jane, "I’d make it forty-four. But sad to say, there are no more. By little-bit and little-bit You’ve eaten all there was of it. I know that little-bits are small. But a lot of little-bits is ALL. And little by little by little, you see, Gets down to NONE at all for me! That’s why I hope that when I bake Another pie, you will just take One great big fat thick lot of it, And let me have a little-bit!"\* ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/55 "2016-10-09T11:45:38Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > That is a bold statement and one not yet proven. I will agree that Leibniz published before Newton, but that’s not quite the same thing as inventing it. Trap ? Sprung 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/56 "2016-10-09T13:26:08Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I have for a few problems. Like minimizing weight of a cylinder of constant volume as a function of wall and end cap thicknesses. One or twice, I’ve even had to solve differential equations at work. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624/57 "2016-10-09T21:44:42Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > One or twice, I’ve even had to solve differential equations at work. I resort to the Laplace transforms (s-domain analysis) often in circuit design but I don’t call it solving a differential equation. I just call it cheating. Last time I solved a differential equation was in Math 315 back at the university. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-about-calculus/767624.md?page=2)