# What's the Big Deal With Shakespeare? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2015, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529 "2015-10-13T06:40:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/81 "2015-10-17T13:49:32Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/cRj01LShXN8/hqdefault.jpg "Henry V - Band of Brothers") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRj01LShXN8) Greatest. Shakespeare. Speech. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/82 "2015-10-17T14:48:10Z")
Heh. As soon as I saw that post, I said to myself “That’s going to be St. Crispin’s Day”. And Shakespeare was right, too: To this day, when anyone mentions St. Crispin’s Day, that battle is the first and usually only thing to enter mind. ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/83 "2015-10-17T14:59:59Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player\_detailpage&v=cRj01LShXN8#t=28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cRj01LShXN8#t=28) > > Greatest. Shakespeare. Speech. Ever. Gentlemen in England now abed, will think themselves acurs’d and hold there manhood cheap while any speaks that fought with us today upon st crispins day! It’s right up there. I vote for Mark Anthony’s speech from Julius Ceasar (my heart is in the coffin there with Ceasar, and I must pause while it come back to me…) Brutus had the crowd eating out of his hand up to that point. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/84 "2015-10-17T19:42:17Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player\_detailpage&v=cRj01LShXN8#t=28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cRj01LShXN8#t=28) > > Greatest. Shakespeare. Speech. Ever. For those who don’t know, the young boy seen at the 2:29 mark is Batman (Christian Bale)… ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/85 "2015-10-17T20:57:27Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > For those who don’t know, the young boy seen at the 2:29 mark is Batman (Christian Bale)… Oh yeah, so it is. Wish I knew anyone who would find that piece of film trivia as fun as I do. I’ll have to store it away until the next time this scene comes up in conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/86 "2015-10-17T21:04:20Z")
Very brief highjack, but anyone here familiar with Firesign Theater’s “Anythynge You Want To” – originally recorded under the title “Shakespeare’s Lost Comedy?” Some remarkably fun and funny pseudo-Shakespearean guff here, with lots and lots of deliberate anachronisms. The best scene (IMO) is the throne-room speech where the King is calling his Lords to prepare for battle…and all of the terms are Hollywood movie-terms! “Now, studious Burbank! Come, lofty Mulholland! We shall make such a production…” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/87 "2015-10-18T01:02:43Z")
I agree with those that have said to go see a play performed. In the schools I attended Shakespeare was poorly taught. It was made boring, if you can believe it. We never even read the works out loud. Then I saw a production of Measure for Measure in television. I don’t know why I even bothered to watch, but it was wonderful! I didn’t know you could laugh at Shakespeare. Dirty jokes, illicit sex, cross-dressing, it opened my eyes. I went back to watch other plays, even read them, Shakespeare had something in common with Cecil B. DeMille, or Stephen Spielberg, he knew the kind of things people would watch. And he said it all so beautifully, for the most part anyway. Plus, so many themes are still relevant, greed, lust, honor, ambition. When you see continuing wars in the world, go read the Duke of Burgundy’s speech to the kings of England and France, in Henry v. He asks why they can’t make peace, since the land is going to rack and ruin with continuing warfare. [http://shakespeare.mit.edu/henryv/henryv.5.2.html](http://shakespeare.mit.edu/henryv/henryv.5.2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/88 "2015-10-18T09:47:02Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > Oh yeah, so it is. Wish I knew anyone who would find that piece of film trivia as fun as I do. I’ll have to store it away until the next time this scene comes up in conversation. To clarify, he wasn’t just an un-speaking extra in that one scene, he had an actual role in the film (Robin the luggage-boy). People forget both that Bale was a child actor and (I think because) he is actually British. He starred in Spielberg’s _Empire of the Sun_. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/89 "2015-10-20T12:32:16Z")
This program is testimony to the power and relevance of Shakespeare: [“Shakespeare acting program helps veterans deal with emotions”](http://wapo.st/1GmWNTl) > [@](#): > > A group of Milwaukee-area actors started workshops in which veterans depict conflict-heavy scenes from Shakespeare’s plays, aimed at helping the former service members deal with post-traumatic stress disorder, addiction and reintegration issues, and mental health problems. > > “One of the reasons that the Shakespeare works so well is . . . it’s this language that just holds big emotion,” said actress and project director Nancy Smith-Watson. … I’m wondering if, after all this discussion, the OP has an idea why Shakespeare is a Big Deal? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/90 "2015-10-20T13:25:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m wondering if, after all this discussion, the OP has an idea why Shakespeare is a Big Deal? I hope not. All this thread can show the OP is that a lot of _other_ people appreciate Shakespeare, and if that’s what he bases his appreciation of any art on, well, that’s pretty shallow. If he learns to truly appreciate Shakespeare, it’s going to be from watching a good performance. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/91 "2015-10-20T13:46:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If he learns to truly appreciate Shakespeare, it’s going to be from watching a good performance. Yes, but he can still get “an idea” of what it’s about from others’ comments. ---
**Author:** ![MacLir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MacLir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacLir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/92 "2015-10-20T14:52:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, nothing but a bunch of famous quotes strung together…😛 Louis L’Amour used that line in one of his westerns, when a character remarked that Shakespeare “… just took a bunch of sayings and strung them all together.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![MacLir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MacLir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacLir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/93 "2015-10-20T15:20:02Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Yes, but he can still get “an idea” of what it’s about from others’ comments. I saw a little theatre production of “Two Gentlemen of Verona” that made it more “kid-friendly” by having _entre-acts_ where a second group of actors would come on and burlesque the preceding act in plain simple English with masks and hats to denote different characters. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/94 "2015-10-20T15:22:58Z")
> [@MacLir](#): > > Louis L’Amour used that line in one of his westerns, when a character remarked that Shakespeare “… just took a bunch of sayings and strung them all together.” :smack: Heh. That was my feeling when I saw **Casablanca** for the first time. I knew it wasn’t true, but it still sounded like a bunch of cliches to me :). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/95 "2015-10-20T16:00:52Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > …I’m wondering if, after all this discussion, the OP has an idea why Shakespeare is a Big Deal? > [@Chronos](#): > > I hope not. All this thread can show the OP is that a lot of _other_ people appreciate Shakespeare, and if that’s what he bases his appreciation of any art on, well, that’s pretty shallow. If he learns to truly appreciate Shakespeare, it’s going to be from watching a good performance. Quite so. I’m wondering if the OP now sees why **other people** think Shakespeare is a Big Deal. That was his question. I don’t care if he ever develops an appreciation. Anyway, he didn’t ask, “How can I learn to love Shakespeare.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/96 "2015-10-20T17:48:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Heh. That was my feeling when I saw **Casablanca** for the first time. I knew it wasn’t true, but it still sounded like a bunch of cliches to me :). When I was in high school, there was a re-release of _The Godfather_. None of my friends or I had ever seen it. When the mob guy comes in and intones, “Luca Brazzi sleeps with the fishes,” my friend leaned over and said, “I can’t believe they used that cliche!” ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/97 "2015-10-20T19:27:25Z")
Another vote for both the strength of emotion and the complexity of characters (although these are not universal across his plays or all his characters…). Along with the aesthetic appeal of the writing in and of itself, Shakespeare’s language is well-suited to high emotional drama: it’s great for being overwrought in. 🙂 Somewhat off-topic, but in regards to high emotional drama, there’s a Japanese comic-book adaptation of _Richard the Third_ that’s currently coming out in English, _[Requiem of the Rose King](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1421567784)_ by Aya Kanno, which filters Shakespeare through Japanese girls’ comics to produce something with _insane_ amounts of emotional torque. The visual and narrative esthetics of Japanese girls’ comics means that everyone is beautiful and tormented and crazy and _doomed_, and then it ladles in gender trauma and family dysfunction and just goes for the throat. Apparently the original Japanese works in excerpts from a venerated translation of the play; unfortunately the English translation doesn’t try to go back and put in the original Shakespearean language, which is kind of a pity… It has some significant differences from the play, but it’s an interesting example of another culture’s take on European literature. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/98 "2015-10-21T03:19:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And Shakespeare was right, too: To this day, when anyone mentions St. Crispin’s Day, that battle is the first and usually only thing to enter mind. I don’t think that’s quite what Shakespeare had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/99 "2015-10-21T03:27:18Z")
I’d really like to hear an entire production in OP. The bits I’ve heard by [David and Ben Crystal](https://youtu.be/gPlpphT7n9s?list=PLZagmaVTtDKOwND2jTD6AgewqI0e6YYTn) are just so marvelous to listen to. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529/100 "2015-10-21T07:13:27Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > Somewhat off-topic, but in regards to high emotional drama, there’s a Japanese comic-book adaptation of _Richard the Third_ that’s currently coming out in English, _[Requiem of the Rose King](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1421567784)_ by Aya Kanno, which filters Shakespeare through Japanese girls’ comics to produce something with _insane_ amounts of emotional torque. The visual and narrative esthetics of Japanese girls’ comics means that everyone is beautiful and tormented and crazy and _doomed_, and then it ladles in gender trauma and family dysfunction and just goes for the throat. Apparently the original Japanese works in excerpts from a venerated translation of the play; unfortunately the English translation doesn’t try to go back and put in the original Shakespearean language, which is kind of a pity… It has some significant differences from the play, but it’s an interesting example of another culture’s take on European literature. Try Kurosawa’s movie Throne of Blood (adaptation of Macbeth), or Ran (adaptation of King Lear). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-shakespeare/734529.md?page=6)