# What's the big deal with "their" ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 24, 2004, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858 "2004-02-24T09:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/42 "2018-05-21T08:48:48Z")
Spammer reported. ( **Homan** ) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/43 "2018-05-21T15:57:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The problem is that in the past that usage has been used to exclude women, even if it’s supposed to be inclusive. Does that include the distant past of when that post came from (14 years ago)? 😃 Unfortunately, English hasn’t developed a consensus gender-neutral set of pronouns, so we’re still stuck with “masculine as default”, “awkward conjunction format”, or “plural means singular”. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/44 "2018-05-21T16:28:04Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Does that include the distant past of when that post came from (14 years ago)? 😃 > > Unfortunately, English hasn’t developed a consensus gender-neutral set of pronouns, so we’re still stuck with “masculine as default”, “awkward conjunction format”, or “plural means singular”. Singular they is how English does gender-neutral pronouns, and has been for centuries. Only a few yobbos try to fight against it. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/45 "2018-05-21T16:48:21Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Does that include the distant past of when that post came from (14 years ago)? 😃 To be fair, the thread was resurrected by a spammer who has since been wished away to the cornfield. **Broomstick** was just replying to what seemed like a current thread. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/46 "2018-05-21T18:08:28Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > English has a perfectly valid gender-neutral third-person singular pronoun: **it**. As in, “make sure your child brings **its** own lunch.” > > “It” eliminates the grammatical problems with “them,” avoids the awkwardness of “he or she”, and is equally offensive to anyone regardless of gender. > D This is what I came in to say. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/47 "2018-05-21T21:29:30Z")
> [@Jodocus](#): > > I saw a flyer from school that used the phrase “your son or daughter” about ten times! what’s wrong with “your child” But now, “your son or daughter” is verboten because it excludes non-binary or undefined gender persons. Next we’ll have someone saying that “your child” contains an implied ownership of the child, and is an oppresive reminder of the enslaved treatment of minor children! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/48 "2018-05-21T22:01:06Z")
English has used singular “they” for centuries. If it was good enough for Shakespeare, it’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/49 "2018-05-22T02:38:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > English has used singular “they” for centuries. If it was good enough for Shakespeare, it’s good enough for me. But it takes a genius to break the rules and get away with it. You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?” Well, do ya, punk? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/50 "2018-05-22T03:06:03Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > > [@Jodocus](#): > > > > I saw a flyer from school that used the phrase “your son or daughter” about ten times! what’s wrong with “your child” > > But now, “your son or daughter” is verboten because it excludes non-binary or undefined gender persons. As it happens, there’s now a drama program on the Showtime cable channel called Billions that features a character named Taylor Mason who identifies as non-binary. Upon being introduced to the main character of the show, Taylor said something like, “My preferred pronouns are they, their, and them.” The actor who plays the role, Asia Kate Dillon, also identifies as non-binary. I read somewhere that the show’s creator and writer got the idea of adding a non-binary character after his children (one in high school and one in college) mentioned that their instructors asked students about their preferred pronouns. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/51 "2018-05-22T03:17:07Z")
I can’t be the only person who thinks referring to someone as “it” is super rude. I wouldn’t even call the cat “it.” ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/52 "2018-05-22T05:09:41Z")
From _ **Chasing Amy** _: The Pronoun Game 01:01:47 -\* For your information, they don’t have big hair or wear acid-wash. They’re from my hometown. - Why are you playing the pronoun game? - What are you talking about? I’m not. - You are. I met “someone.” “We” have a great time. “They’re” from my hometown. Does this tube of wonderful have a name?\* There’s some humor I suppose in the irony that “tube of wonderful” is a gender-ambiguous term too… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/53 "2018-05-22T18:56:35Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > But it takes a genius to break the rules and get away with it. > > You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?” > Well, do ya, punk? > 🙂 Who created this rule? When did the rule get created? Where does it say in the rule book that a mule can’t kick a field goal? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858/54 "2018-05-22T19:25:39Z")
English once had a commonly used second-person singular pronoun, “thou”. It’s been more or less replaced by the second-person plural pronoun, “you”. That blunts any complaints against using “they” because it’s plural. We’ve already transitioned to a grammatically plural pronoun for use with an individual once, we can do it again with a third-person pronoun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-big-deal-with-their/230858.md?page=2)