# What's the chance of this guy getting caught? And how? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2001, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660 "2001-04-12T01:02:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/1 "2001-04-12T01:02:48Z")
So, I was in the home of one of my clients today. He has a satellite t.v. hook up. He was receiveing over **1200** channels!:eek: It took over an hour just to look at the list of all the stuff he got. Makes my digital cable look like a b/w set with rabbit ears! Then I asked him what he had to pay per month to get all that. I’ve known this guy for almost 8 years, even though this is the first time I’ve been in his home. (this is a client from work, remember. Not a social aquaintance). But the years I’ve done work for him and his company must have made him comfortable because he confessed to me: He doesn’t pay anything for it. One of his tech guys set him up, all he had to do was buy some equipment and the techie set up the decoder with a programmed video card. He said that about every 6 months some kind of signal (probably a “spike” like they use for illegal cable theft) is sent down that fries his video card, but the techie reprograms the card right away and he’s good to go! I don’t know what bugs me more: The fact that this guy makes 175K a year and steals satellite signals:(or the fact that he gets 1000 more channels than I do:cool: But I have to pay for my lousey 200 channels:mad: So is there anyway this guy can get caught? He claims he’s been doing this for 6 years now. How would they catch him? (and don’t say he’ll get caught when I turn him in. While I frown on his theft I made over $31,000 last year from just this one client alone. I’m not taking a 31k pay cut to be Duddly Do Right.) ---
**Author:** ![Arjuna34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Arjuna34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arjuna34)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/2 "2001-04-12T01:15:29Z")
If the satellite receiver doesn’t have any connection back to the service provider (typically you plug a phone line into it), there’s no way for them to catch him. There’s lots of counter-measures companies like DirecTV take to stop theft, and of course counter-counter-measures, etc. You don’t have to look any farther than ebay to find the equipment to hack it, although at any time a particular hack may fail to work. Arjuna34 ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/3 "2001-04-12T01:30:29Z")
Some kinds of utility people might figure it out and turn him in. If he’s told you, he’s probably told others - and they don’t all stand to lose so much. For that matter, why do you? I mean, he’d probably get fined, not jailed - you could stop the theft and remain anonymous, and be doing the rest of us (I pay for my service too) a favor. And why couldn’t the satellite companies start driving down the street checking dishes against the company records? There’s alot of ways to steal things without getting caught. But that hardly makes it OK. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/4 "2001-04-12T01:42:13Z")
It _might_ be possible to park an electronic surveillance van in front of his house and detect the very slightly different electromagnetic emissions emanating from the card. That wouldn’t cost more than a few dozen mil to research and develop. I suppose a sat-service provider might note the presence of a dish and have the stones to ask him what service he’s using, since they’re the only game in town and he’s not on their list. Unlikely, even if the conditions are right. Your best chance is if the fellow gets divorced. An estranged spouse seems to me to be both the most likely and most efficient means of tagging your man. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/5 "2001-04-12T13:24:05Z")
Yea, the option most likely to bust him is the ever popular “pissing some one off”. Wife. neighbor, friend, coworker, employee whomever. ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/6 "2001-04-12T13:38:31Z")
Seriously though. What would happen? Is someone going to call the police? Would they care? You can’t see these things outside their house, so is a judge going to issue a search warrant for 1 sattelite reciever? Even if someone ratted, what would really happen? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/7 "2001-04-12T14:00:13Z")
There is such a thing as “theft of services”. A Google search for “theft satellite services” turns up– [http://www.law.state.ky.us/news/2000rel/019\_30jun00.htm](http://www.law.state.ky.us/news/2000rel/019_30jun00.htm) > [@](#): > > FRANKFORT, Ky. (Friday, June 30, 2000)–Attorney General Ben Chandler announced that on June 28, 2000, five Hardin County residents were charged with four (4) felony and two (2) misdemeanor counts. > > Ronnie Stillwell, Roger Stillwell, Robert R. Richey, Jr., and Joseph K. Portman have each been charged with one count of theft of services, a Class D Felony. Additionally, Ronnie Stillwell is charged with a misdemeanor count of possession, use or transfer of a device for theft of telecommunications services, and Kristi Carey is charged with a misdemeanor count of criminal simulation. > > It is alleged that Ronnie Stillwell used a computer and illegal software to reprogram Digital Satellite Service (DSS) cards. Ronnie Stillwell illegally reprogrammed cards for himself, his brother, Roger Stillwell, Robert R. Richey, Jr. and Kristi Carey to obtain illegal cable television channels. Notice the “f” word–“felony”. 😉 In Pennsylvania, it’s a crime under “Inchoate Crimes” like criminal conspiracy, bringing a weapon into a courtroom, possessing a set of master automobile keys, and bringing a gun to school. [http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA910.html](http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA910.html) > [@](#): > > § 910. Manufacture, distribution, use or possession of devices for theft of telecommunications services. It’s a misdemeanor for a first offense if it’s involving fewer than 10 unlawful telecommunications devices. If it’s more than 10 devices for a first offense, or depending on how many other “inchoate crimes” the perp already has on his sheet, and how many unlawful telecommunications devices he’s running (more than 10, more than 50), it’s a felony of progressively greater degree. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/8 "2001-04-12T14:14:07Z")
And as for “how would someone get caught”, the Feds run sting operations. [http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/cti360.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/cti360.htm) > [@](#): > > 08/09/00- Updated 05:07 PM ET > Feds reveal satellite TV sting > ‘Operation Smartcard’ nets buyers of > counterfeit satellite TV access cards > > WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal authorities on Tuesday disclosed a 22-month undercover sting operation in which government agents sold thousands of counterfeit cards that allowed users to steal satellite television signals. > > The investigation, dubbed ‘‘Operation [Smartcard.net](http://Smartcard.net),’’ targeted individuals who bought counterfeit satellite television access cards providing DirecTV programming at no monthly cost. > \ > However, authorities said there is a large underground market for counterfeit cards, at a black-market price of $325 to $425. > > To track down such users, undercover agents sold counterfeit access cards they called ‘‘Eurocards’’ through an Internet business created by Customs agents. This is why it’s a felony. > [@](#): > > Officials estimate that use of the illegal cards costs the satellite TV industry $6.2 million annually in lost revenue. Big money. > [@](#): > > Violations of this federal statute carry a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a $500,000 fine. And even if your friend didn’t buy his card from a pirate website, still in Pennsylvania at least it’s illegal even to possess a counterfeit card. The state of Illinois ran a sting last year, but I can’t find it on the Web anymore. All that’s left is this: [http://www.ag.state.il.us/pressrelease/2000jan.htm](http://www.ag.state.il.us/pressrelease/2000jan.htm) > [@](#): > > 01/07/00 > > ATTORNEY GENERAL’S INVESTIGATORS CONDUCT SUCCESSFUL COMPUTER FRAUD STING INVOLVING THEFT OF SATELLITE TV SERVICE > SPRINGFIELD – Attorney General Jim Ryan revealed today that an Auburn man has been arrested for computer fraud in a “sting” led by Ryan’s Department of Investigations involving theft of satellite television services. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2001, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/9 "2001-04-12T15:59:17Z")
Chances of him getting caught: slim to nothing. It’s no biggie to calculate, since he hasn’t got caught yet. ---
**Author:** ![TheNerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TheNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheNerd)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/10 "2001-04-13T01:29:56Z")
He won’t get caught unless someone turns him in, which is unlikely. But, if you have a problem with what he’s doing, read the story [here](http://slashdot.org/articles/01/01/25/1343218.shtml) It appears that DirecTV has been having an ongoing war with hackers/crackers, where the “pirates” would get a card and program it to receive free signals. DirecTV periodically sends reprogramming (what you thought was the “spike”) to the customers which wil work with legitimate cards but not the pirate cards (because of the connection back, I think). These went back and forth with pirates adjusting to the new programs nearly instantly. But DirecTV had a plan. They slowly sent what looked like random data to the cards over a series of these reprogrammings. The hackers dutifully adjusted their own systems to match. Then, suddenly, with one final update, the noise is revealed to be a program, and the hackers’ cards are changed in such a way that they can’t be programmed again. Score one for DirecTV. And the beauty of it is that the first 8 bytes of the memory of the burned cards turns out to be “GAMEOVER”. That’s style. ---
**Author:** ![TheNerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TheNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheNerd)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/11 "2001-04-13T01:31:35Z")
sorry about that link. the correct url is [http://slashdot.org/articles/01/01/25/1343218.shtml](http://slashdot.org/articles/01/01/25/1343218.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2001, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-chance-of-this-guy-getting-caught-and-how/61660/12 "2001-04-13T04:33:16Z")
Personally, I have very little sympathy for cable and satellite corporations. I’m not going to lose sleep over the thought of people stealing their service. That said, I wouldn’t do it myself. There are a number of methods that can be used to detect service thiefs. The most unbeatable is a monitoring van. The signal that’s coming out of your television set does not end at the screen. It broadcasts outward and can reliably be detected hundreds of meters from the actual television set. So the cable or satellite companies may be able to drive down your street, determine what televisions are currently tuned to their service, and compare this list with who’s paying. The only way to avoid this type of detection would be to never watch stolen channels which obviously would defeat the purpose of stealing them.