# What's the connection between Lyndon LaRouche and the Pythagorean Theorem?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 18, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909 "2004-09-18T22:29:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/1 "2004-09-18T22:29:31Z")
Two days ago I encountered a group of LaRouche activists demonstrating on my college’s campus. Among other posters, they had one of a drawing of a triangle with the theorem stated under it, with the caption “Can you explain this?” Wondering what the hell geometry has to do with politics, I did some Google research, which confirmed that LaRouche activists like to use it as part of demonstrations, but not much else of substance. So, what it is about the Pythagorean Theorem that makes it popular with LaRouche activists?
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### Author:  [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/2 "2004-09-18T22:44:10Z")
> [@Cleophus](#):
>
> Two days ago I encountered a group of LaRouche activists demonstrating on my college’s campus. Among other posters, they had one of a drawing of a triangle with the theorem stated under it, with the caption “Can you explain this?” Wondering what the hell geometry has to do with politics, I did some Google research, which confirmed that LaRouche activists like to use it as part of demonstrations, but not much else of substance. So, what it is about the Pythagorean Theorem that makes it popular with LaRouche activists?
I saw one discussion involving this [here](http://groups.google.com/groups?q=larouche+pythagorean&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&selm=1992Oct27.045745.17771%40news.ysu.edu&rnum=2)
Good luck making heads or tails of it…
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### Author:  [@Complex\_Conjugate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Complex_Conjugate)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/3 "2004-09-18T23:13:27Z")
Wow LaRouche sounds like a total crackpot!
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/4 "2004-09-18T23:18:14Z")
We discussed LaRouche and his theories, world-view, movement and personal history rather extensively in a recent GD thread: “What’s the deal with LaRouche?” – [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=268703](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=268703)
You might also want to look at this Wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon\_Larouche](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Larouche)
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### Author:  [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/5 "2004-09-18T23:21:39Z")
My favorite LaRouche bizarreness is something to do with the “junk musics” of the 20th century (i.e. basically all popular forms of American music, blues, jazz, rock etc.) having done something untoward with the note C. Apparently this incorrect cycles per second value of C disturbs the brain, leading to incorrect politics. :rolleyes: Only European and Korean classical music seem to have the correct aesthetics which lead to right-thinking!
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### Author:  [@rippingtons\_fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rippingtons_fan)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/6 "2004-09-18T23:24:33Z")
One thing that I heard was that LaRouche and his hangers-on were always talking about something called “The Trilateral Commission”.
Could that be what their triangle stands for??
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### Author:  [@Complex\_Conjugate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Complex_Conjugate)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/7 "2004-09-18T23:25:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> We discussed LaRouche and his theories, world-view, movement and personal history rather extensively in a recent GD thread: “What’s the deal with LaRouche?” – [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=268703](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=268703)
>
> You might also want to look at this Wikipedia article: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon\_Larouche](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Larouche)
Double wow! My assesmnt of his crackpottedness was only based on reading about his theoires on physics in the link above. He is a renaissance crackpot!
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### Author:  [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/8 "2004-09-19T02:02:57Z")
> [@Cleophus](#):
>
> Among other posters, they had one of a drawing of a triangle with the theorem stated under it, with the caption “Can you explain this?”
Yes, I can. Do I win a prize or something?
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/9 "2004-09-19T02:16:10Z")
**Cleophus** , La Rouche himself is nuttier than Planters with a side of Skippy. Five minutes with one of his disciples and they will try to have you believing conspiracy theories like you’ve never heard before. Those guys are tinfoil hatters with matching wingtips. 😉
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### Author:  [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/10 "2004-09-19T02:27:14Z")
> [@Complex Conjugate](#):
>
> Wow LaRouche sounds like a total crackpot!
Sounds? Trust me, he’s a 100%, Grade-A, solid gold wackjob.
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### Author:  [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/11 "2004-09-19T02:37:33Z")
I think Dave Barry summed it up nicely in one of his articles: “Where you have a brain, Mr Lyndon H LaRouche Jr has a Whack-a-Mole game.”
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### Author:  [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/12 "2004-09-19T03:06:33Z")
The Pythagorean Theorem led to the almost immediate discovery of what we now call irrational numbers. Perhaps that’s the LaRouche connection.
The Pythagoreans were so shocked, they refused to accept such numbers existed, and prohibited members from revealing the discovery. Reportedly they killed a member of the group for doing so.
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### Author:  [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/13 "2004-09-19T03:10:40Z")
I’ve had some run-ins with LaRouche’istas at my school, a very odd bunch.
There is a story that one of my housemates told about one of her friends encounters with them. Her friend was leaving the student union building and a LaRouche’ista came up to him and started talking about LaRouche and politics and such. The friend decides he’ll humor the guy and listen. The guy talks about all sorts of crackpot stuff and at one point he says something like “It all boils down to the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra.” The friend, being a Math grad (or maybe statistics, I forget), perks up and says “Oh, you mean…” and gives the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra, which, I’m given to understand, is like a sentence or two and sounds fairly prosaic.
The Larouche’ista is like “Well, ah, you know, I, ah, think you’re simplifying it a little bit…” and pretty much shuts up.
(Note that I am not a math person and so I can’t remember what the the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra is, but I recall when I heard it I thought that it was short and had little to say about politics. )
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### Author:  [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/14 "2004-09-19T03:48:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> (Note that I am not a math person and so I can’t remember what the the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra is, but I recall when I heard it I thought that it was short and had little to say about politics. )
Fundamental Theorem of Algebra:
Any (nonconstant) polynomial with complex coefficients has a complex zero. Or, equivalently, the complex numbers are algebraically closed.
Yep, not very political.
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### Author:  [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/15 "2004-09-19T04:21:49Z")
From what I’ve been able to extract from the few Larouche screeds I’ve idly flipped through, this would be a reference to the fact that there are things that “should” be taught in today’s schools but are not, like the Pythagorean Theorem and the words to the Ode to Joy. (I didn’t say it made sense.)
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/16 "2004-09-19T15:41:53Z")
**aahala:** _The Pythagorean Theorem led to the almost immediate discovery of what we now call irrational numbers. Perhaps that’s the LaRouche connection.
The Pythagoreans were so shocked, they refused to accept such numbers existed, and prohibited members from revealing the discovery. Reportedly they killed a member of the group for doing so._
These are well-known legends, but I think many if not most historians of mathematics nowadays consider them either flat-out wrong or unlikely.
1. The “Pythagorean” theorem was known in other cultures (in particular, in ancient Mesopotamia) for a long time before it came into Greek mathematics and became associated with the name of Pythagoras. (Some **proofs** of the theorem may well have originated among the Greeks.) The identiy, and even the existence, of Pythagoras himself are pretty hazy, since all references to him come from long after the time when he supposedly lived (sixth century BCE, I think).
2. In classical Greek mathematics, what we call “irrational numbers” emerged from the so-called “problem of incommensurability of the side and the diagonal”. (E.g., if the side and diagonal of a square of side 1 are incommensurable—that is, there’s no unit small enough that the side and diagonal can both be measured in integer numbers of that unit—that implies that the square root of 2 is what we call “irrational”.) There’s no reason to think that this problem was immediately inspired by the Pythagorean theorem, which was probably known quite a while before incommensurability became an interest.
3. It’s not really clear why, when, or how Greeks discovered the incommensurability of the side and the diagonal. It does seem to have been tied in with developments in Pythagorean number theory in the middle of the first millennium CE.
) The legend of the Pythagorean Hippasus revealing the incommensurability problem and getting a hard time as a result—and other suggestions that incommensurability was viewed by the early Greek mathematicians as “shocking”—seem to originate in later classical sources. There’s no **contemporary** evidence that incommensurability or irrationality was seen as a philosophical crisis.
There’s a discussion of early Greek mathematics and incommensurability in the recently issued second edition of David Fowler’s _The Mathematics of Plato’s Academy_, which is summarized in an online [review](http://www.maa.org/reviews/mpa.html):
> [@](#):
>
> One of the important themes in Fowler’s book is that one must carefully assess the available sources on early Greek mathematics. He demonstrates that most of the elements of the “standard story” either come from very late Greek sources (500 years or more after the time of Plato) or are reconstructions by modern historians who are really reflecting nineteenth and twentieth century concerns about foundational issues.
(looks around) Whoa, this thread is supposed to be about Lyndon LaRouche, isn’t it? 'Scuse me, folks… (slinks out)
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/17 "2004-09-19T18:21:26Z")
> [@rippingtons\_fan](#):
>
> One thing that I heard was that LaRouche and his hangers-on were always talking about something called “The Trilateral Commission”.
> Could that be what their triangle stands for??
I doubt it – I think the obsession with the Pythagorean Theorem is just one manifestation of LaRouche’s general obsession with elevated, classical culture as being superior to popular culture. But here’s a link to a Wikipedia article on the Trilateral Commission (which really does exist, and has long been a staple of conspiracy buffs of all stripes): [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral\_Commission](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission)
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### Author:  [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/18 "2004-09-19T18:24:21Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#):
>
> **Cleophus** , La Rouche himself is nuttier than Planters with a side of Skippy. Five minutes with one of his disciples and they will try to have you believing conspiracy theories like you’ve never heard before. Those guys are tinfoil hatters with matching wingtips. 😉
Planters (i.e. peanuts) aren’t actually nuts. Likewise, Skippy isn’t made with nuts.
I apologize for this post. What a senseless waste of human life.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-lyndon-larouche-and-the-pythagorean-theorem/264909/19 "2004-09-19T18:29:42Z")
> [@TJdude825](#):
>
> Planters (i.e. peanuts) aren’t actually nuts. Likewise, Skippy isn’t made with nuts.
>
> I apologize for this post. What a senseless waste of human life.
Okay…nuttier than Nutella with a side of filberts?