# What's the Connection Between wagner's Operas and Naziism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 2, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234 "2007-07-02T15:44:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/61 "2007-08-07T14:22:41Z")
It appears Hitler had quite a few guilty pleasures: [Hitler’s lost music collection reveals ‘forbidden’ Jewish and Russian composers](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=473611&in_page_id=1811) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/62 "2007-08-07T17:26:57Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I don’t know if Fritz Lang was an anti semite. [/QUOTE] Far from it. Lang’s mother was a Jew, as was his first wife. When the Nazis rose to power, he left Germany (in 1934) for Paris and then the U.S. (abandoning what would have been a lucrative career after his numerous successes). He divorced his second wife, leaving her in Germany, after she became a Nazi party member, and proceeded to make a number of anti-Nazi thrillers in the States: _Man Hunt, Hangmen Also Die, Ministry of Fear, Cloak and Dagger._ His “Mabuse” films made in Germany were also thinly veiled criticisms of National Socialism. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/63 "2007-08-07T17:56:32Z")
I find Hitler’s love of Beethoven’s music amusing because Beethoven would’ve detested him and would’ve passed snarky notes about him at the cafe. Heard a joke a while back: Austria’s greatest triumph was convincing the world that Beethoven was an Austrian and Hitler wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/64 "2007-08-07T20:03:08Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] I got a Wagner tape once but I only listened to it once for several years. Then I listened to it again and thought “Wow! This opera really is very coherent, and has nice subtle themes linking everything together running through it! I can’t believe I didn’t like it originally!” Then I looked at the tape cover, and it was a best of. [/QUOTE] As Mark Twain said, Wagner has wonderful moments and terrible quarter hours. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/65 "2007-08-07T20:14:48Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] As Mark Twain said, Wagner has wonderful moments and terrible quarter hours. [/QUOTE] Rossini, not Twain. Originally: M. Wagner a de beaux moments, mais de mauvais quart-d’heures. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/66 "2007-08-07T20:23:04Z")
[QUOTE=fachverwirrt] Rossini, not Twain. Originally: M. Wagner a de beaux moments, mais de mauvais quart-d’heures. [/QUOTE] I stand corrected–but it sure sounds like something Twain would have said! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BaneSidhe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c5a1d2/32.png) [@BaneSidhe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaneSidhe)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/67 "2007-08-07T20:32:29Z")
Opera. Bleeach. Had to listen to far too much of it while I was in school and NEVER again. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/68 "2007-08-07T20:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] I stand corrected–but it sure sounds like something Twain would have said! 😃 [/QUOTE] Twain seems to have said a lot of things he never said. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/69 "2007-08-07T20:56:54Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] I stand corrected–but it sure sounds like something Twain would have said! 😃 [/QUOTE] Perhaps you are thinking of his essay _The Damned German Language._ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/70 "2007-08-08T03:36:05Z")
Twain’s famous quote is: “Wagner’s music is better than it sounds.” (intentional irony I guess?) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234/71 "2007-08-08T12:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] There were so many deaths on stage that Wagner’s sister became physically ill upon reading the libretto. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Good thing she never got to watch Don Mendo’s Revenge then. In Spanish we have the expression “even the prompter dies, in that story” - in Don Mendo, it’s actually true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-connection-between-wagners-operas-and-naziism/410234.md?page=3)