# What's the dark underside of our society? Your theories. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 9, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384 "2011-07-09T03:51:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/1 "2011-07-09T03:51:49Z")
I think one of the creepy undersides of our society involves the removal of every taboo of sexuality and violence, with the big exception of children. And the media’s consequent fetishization of that very thing. (Caylee Anthony, the MJ pedophilia trial, the [Olsen Twins](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1024&bih=626&q=olsen+twins+start+your+engines&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=)). It’s something that makes me feel like my own country is populated by fucking lizard people. Not so much creepy but definitely dark: the unquestioning obeisance to government authority, and the thugs and petty criminals who take advantage of it. One suspects the TSA is only the tip of the iceberg. And everything here: [The 5 Most Horrifying Things Corporations Are Taking Over](http://www.cracked.com/article_19274_the-5-most-horrifying-things-corporations-are-taking-over.html) I’m not talking about conspiracy theories, but the dark, half-conscious undercurrents of our society that in everyday life we’d often prefer not to acknowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/2 "2011-07-09T03:57:26Z")
Abortion comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/3 "2011-07-09T04:01:09Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Abortion comes to mind. It would. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/4 "2011-07-09T04:02:31Z")
Radical religious nutjobs. Particularly the homophobes and anti-abortion types. Single greatest threat to freedom I know. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/5 "2011-07-09T04:07:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It would. I think the question of whether a woman is legally able to choose to have an abortion is pretty well settled at this point. There’s no chance it will be taken away in the United States. But would you deny that there’s a [dark side to that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion)? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/6 "2011-07-09T04:09:26Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I think the question of whether a woman is legally able to choose to have an abortion is pretty well settled at this point. But would you deny that there’s a [dark side to that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion)? Or if (hypothetically) there is a “homosexual gene”, that would also cause quite a few problems. Perhaps a less partisan one: modern-day slavery of all sorts from sex slaves from Asia to workers from Mexico forced to pick produce in farms in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/7 "2011-07-09T12:13:29Z")
You could argue that there’s not so much a dark underside to society, as a thin light veneer on top. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/8 "2011-07-09T12:25:03Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > You could argue that there’s not so much a dark underside to society, as a thin light veneer on top. Optimist! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/9 "2011-07-09T13:56:48Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > You could argue that there’s not so much a dark underside to society, as a thin light veneer on top. I think that is closer to the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/10 "2011-07-09T14:02:09Z")
The diminishing empathy/consideration for the unlucky: the poor, the unemployed, the disabled, the elderly. Often manifesting in an urge to cut the very programs that enable something approaching a humane or tolerable existence for them. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/11 "2011-07-09T14:27:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The diminishing empathy/consideration for the unlucky: the poor, the unemployed, the disabled, the elderly. Often manifesting in an urge to cut the very programs that enable something approaching a humane or tolerable existence for them. From Kurt Vonnegut, in _Slaughterhouse Five_: > [@](#): > > America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, ‘It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but might as well be.’ It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich? ’ > > . . . > > Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue . . . Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say, Napoleonic times. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/12 "2011-07-27T14:43:16Z")
I think every OP should have the privilege of a one-time-only self courtesy bump. So bump, 'cause I’m interested. Oh, and the “27 club.” Rock and roll, maybe extended to pop music generally at this stage. In the words of Stephen King, talking about one if his short stories: > [@](#): > > “You Know They Got a Hell of a Band” . . . What I felt here – the impetus for the story – was how authentically creepy it is that so many rockers have died young, or under nasty circumstances; it’s an actuarial expert’s nightmare. Many younger fans view the high mortality rate as romantic, but when you’ve boogied your way from The Platters to Ice T, as I have, you start to see a darker side, a crawling kingsnake side. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/13 "2011-07-27T15:13:02Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > It’s something that makes me feel like my own country is populated by fucking lizard people. :rolleyes: Oh, what nonsense! “Ruled” is not the same thing as “populated.” ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/14 "2011-07-27T15:43:50Z")
OK, so you’ve (finally?) discovered how our society (and every society ever) operates. Welcome to awareness, please use a coaster so the furniture doesn’t get scratched. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/15 "2011-07-27T15:53:52Z")
The dark underside that will bring the United States (and probably a few other countries) down is _lack of long-term planning_. Everything is instant, do it now, look at the next quarter. As a result, most plans with better results that take longer to get going are passed over in favour of quickie plans with worse results. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/16 "2011-07-27T16:07:20Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I think one of the creepy undersides of our society involves the removal of every taboo of sexuality and violence, with the big exception of children. I don’t see that in the US. Violence maybe, but sexuality is still very repressed here. My dark underside would be the continuing and deepening mistrust of education. It’s tied in to a lot of fundamentalist beliefs, but also seems to be prevalent in the speeches of those like Palin. Where gut feeling is placed as somehow better than analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/17 "2011-07-27T16:14:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: Oh, what nonsense! > > “Ruled” is not the same thing as “populated.” Well, I don’t live in the UK. > [@villa](#): > > My dark underside would be the continuing and deepening mistrust of education. It’s tied in to a lot of fundamentalist beliefs, but also seems to be prevalent in the speeches of those like Palin. Where gut feeling is placed as somehow better than analysis. Yeah, that feels kind of like the psychology of the mob, which is a f\*ckin scary thing. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/18 "2011-07-27T16:18:14Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > From Kurt Vonnegut, in _Slaughterhouse Five_: > > > [@](#): > > > > America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, ‘It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but might as well be.’ It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. And today the American lower classes support politicians whose agenda is to take from the poor and give to the rich. Vonnegut’s book was written in 1969, and I remember eventually being turned off by his work, He seemed like a bitter misguided left-winger. As late as 1990 I had an older intellectual friend to whom I said “Hey, you’ve taught me some good science, but what’s with the crackpot left-wing conspiracy theories?” I realize now Vonnegut and my friend weren’t crackpots at all; the dismal truths exceed even their claims. To some extent I’ve gotten wiser and better informed, but it’s also certainly true that the takeover of America by the Rich for the Rich and of the Rich has become so blatant, I’m amazed that many don’t see it. Although he was himself something of a right-winger, Henry Mencken made an observation very relevant today: [QUOTE=H. L. Mencken] “No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/19 "2011-07-27T16:29:01Z")
I think the media’s the dark underside of our society. It influences us in profound ways that nobody foresees, but that may have dire consequences on our society. It’s the non-stop coverage and commentary on little news events from around the country and world that get people thinking that “OMG! This shit happens ALL the time! I’d better protect my kid!” when in fact, whatever it is may be less likely than lightning strikes. For example, pedophiles and child molesters are no more common than in the past, yet parents are so terrified that they won’t let their kids roam free in places like toy stores, walk to school, etc… It’s because the news media publishes each and every story about that kind of thing in the most lurid and terrifying ways, about 5 minutes after it happens anywhere in the country. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384/20 "2011-07-27T16:35:29Z")
I think it is our irreversible slide into becoming a third world nation. As noted above, working class whites are voting against their own interests, manipulated by religion, racism and the continued miltirization of our society, while the oligarchs make it clear they have absolutely no sense of commitment to the US as a society. I feel we have passed the tipping point of ignorance and apathy and that George Bush prancing around on an aircraft carrier in his flight suit was our first third world moment, but not our last. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dark-underside-of-our-society-your-theories/588384.md?page=2)