# Whats the deal in USA with 1 litre soda pop, is USA on metric? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2002, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825 "2002-08-21T01:23:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/121 "2017-07-30T16:16:26Z")
Let me give you another example, that really did affect me in a real way which could happen to almost any ordinary person. Some years back, I went on a vacation to Ireland. One of the B&Bs we stayed at had really good brown bread, and they had the recipe available. I happily took a copy of the recipe, and tried to make it when I got home. I can’t, because I have no idea what any of the quantities are. I tried making it assuming Imperial units, and that didn’t work. I tried making it assuming American units (in case the innkeeper “helpfully” translated it for benefit of American tourists), and that didn’t work, either. I _think_ that the innkeeper might have translated the units, but missed some that she didn’t realize were different in the US and British Isles. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/122 "2017-07-30T18:24:52Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > First of all, Celsius is not the SI unit of temperature, that is Kelvin, I never brought up SI units, you did. SI units and the metric system as it’s commonly understood and adopted are not the same thing. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > To me the primary issue is that the world use the same basis units, which has been true for the US for over a century. To me the primary issue is obviously what people actually use, and what is mandated for commerce. The official derivation algorithms are utterly irrelevant. As I said, when I’m measuring a carpet for the family room in meters, I am utterly unconcerned about the speed of light from which the meter derived. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > But as legal documents are easier for me to read in English let me stick to the UK: I’ve already agreed with you that virtually all countries have measurement systems that can be described as “mixed” though they vary in how deeply you have to dig to find the anomalies. Britain is a bit odd in their continued use of imperial measures for traffic signage, but still, if your list of non-metric exceptions consists of four bullet points your case is pretty weak. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Heck even in Canada it is a mix, where wine is sold by the ml, but served in restaurants by the OZ, and beef is advertised and sold by the pound. Not true, or more accurately, misleading. Wine is not “served in restaurants by the ounce” in the sense that no one orders “x” ounces of wine. You may be able to order a small carafe or a glass of wine instead of a whole bottle and the menu may tell you its size in traditional units, but all retail sales are mandated to be metric. Beef and other produce might be advertised by the pound, especially when on sale to emphasize a low price in what the grocer might feel are more familiar terms, but the packaged price or the butcher counter sign is _ **always** _ metric (usually $ per kg for raw meats, or per 100 or 200 grams for deli counter stuff). I’m sure that these quirky caterings to tradition will eventually vanish. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Canada has metric speed and distance signs, so are they more advanced than the UK? Not “more advanced”, just more consistently metricated. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > So in the spirit of “fighting ignorance” I am asking for cites, and to be clear outside of the special use cases I have explained before I am not anti-SI, but I also don’t think it is a huge priority. My cite is [this map](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system#/media/File:Metric_system.png), and the article that accompanies it. My cite is also the CIA Factbook, [mentioned here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States) as stating that “the United States [is] one of only three countries, as of 2016, with Myanmar (Burma) and Liberia, that have not adopted, or are not in the process of adopting, the metric system as their official system of weights and measures”. My cite is also the complete failure of Carter-era attempts at metrification in the 70s and the hostility directed at it, including shooting down early metric road signs, and the eventual disbanding of the United States Metric Board in 1982. > [@septimus](#): > > This is a real problem at my home. A thermostat setting of 28 is too warm and 27 is too cool. I’d like to set it at 27.5 but that is not an option. Instead I alternate between 28 and 27 every 15 minutes or so, based on wife’s prodding! I realize this is a joke, but FTR, every Celsius thermostat I’ve ever seen is adjustable in (at least) 0.5 degree increments, and generally has a hysteresis of plus and minus 0.5 degrees or less. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/123 "2017-07-30T19:29:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Let me give you another example, that really did affect me in a real way which could happen to almost any ordinary person. Some years back, I went on a vacation to Ireland. One of the B&Bs we stayed at had really good brown bread, and they had the recipe available. I happily took a copy of the recipe, and tried to make it when I got home. I can’t, because I have no idea what any of the quantities are. I tried making it assuming Imperial units, and that didn’t work. I tried making it assuming American units (in case the innkeeper “helpfully” translated it for benefit of American tourists), and that didn’t work, either. I _think_ that the innkeeper might have translated the units, but missed some that she didn’t realize were different in the US and British Isles. Once again, this is a problem with people not specifying units of measure, and can be a problem within a single measuring system too. Teaspoons vs tablespoons vs grams vs milliliters. I mostly work within the metric system, and have challenges with people not marking milli, micro and nano. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/124 "2017-07-30T19:51:59Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I never brought up SI units, you did. SI units and the metric system as it’s commonly understood and adopted are not the same thing. > > To me the primary issue is obviously what people actually use, and what is mandated for commerce. The official derivation algorithms are utterly irrelevant. As I said, when I’m measuring a carpet for the family room in meters, I am utterly unconcerned about the speed of light from which the meter derived. > > I’ve already agreed with you that virtually all countries have measurement systems that can be described as “mixed” though they vary in how deeply you have to dig to find the anomalies. Britain is a bit odd in their continued use of imperial measures for traffic signage, but still, if your list of non-metric exceptions consists of four bullet points your case is pretty weak. > > My cite is [this map](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system#/media/File:Metric_system.png), and the article that accompanies it. My cite is also the CIA Factbook, [mentioned here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States) as stating that “the United States [is] one of only three countries, as of 2016, with Myanmar (Burma) and Liberia, that have not adopted, or are not in the process of adopting, the metric system as their official system of weights and measures”. My cite is also the complete failure of Carter-era attempts at metrification in the 70s and the hostility directed at it, including shooting down early metric road signs, and the eventual disbanding of the United States Metric Board in 1982. > > I realize this is a joke, but FTR, every Celsius thermostat I’ve ever seen is adjustable in (at least) 0.5 degree increments, and generally has a hysteresis of plus and minus 0.5 degrees or less. First “The Metric System” outside of SI is not cohesive nor universal and in fact there were three major completely different versions. The SI is what countries adopted, and not one of the random other versions. Second the UK, Canada and other countries also had issues in the 70’s with metrification and in fact the conversion to metric sales of goods was completed in 2000, when the dual labeling and US government agency transition happened in the early 1990s. > [@](#): > > EEC issued directive 71/354/EEC. This directive catalogued units of measure that could be used for “ **economic, public health, public safety and administrative purposes** ” The bolding is mine: This is the rule that lead to metrification of the EU, and the UK. Outside of gold, which no one follows, the US Federal government agencies that handle those functions are required to use Metric. In the UK: > [@](#): > > imperial units are widely encountered in unregulated areas such as the press and everyday speech, SI or units approved for use alongside SI are used in most areas where units of measure are regulated. As for wine, the sub-bottle serving size is simply the glass: [ > [@](#): > > 9 oz glass of wine (14% alcohol) = 2 standard drinks ]([http://www.heretohelp.bc.ca/sites/default/files/LRDG\_StandardDrink.pdf](http://www.heretohelp.bc.ca/sites/default/files/LRDG_StandardDrink.pdf)) Note the quantities on there for ‘A Canadian “standard drink”’. It is also an oz in the regulations for pours. It is far more messy that the folklore pretends. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/125 "2017-07-30T20:22:06Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > It never fails to amaze me how many people believe that myth. I absolutely guarantee that EVERYBODY who understands the American system knows why we stick with it. As an American who fully understand the American system, I don’t know why we stick with it, so you’re wrong there. > [@Flyer](#): > > A foot is very close to the length of the average adult foot. The metric system has no equivalent. How on earth is that useful? If a foot were exactly the length of every adult’s foot, it would indeed be useful, because everyone would effectively be carrying a ruler with them all the time (although it would be rather inconvenient to have to remove your shoes to measure something). But how is the fact that a foot slightly longer than most adult’s feet useful? Do you often measure your feet, and not care about a couple inches of error? > [@Flyer](#): > > A yard is about twice the length from the wrist to the shoulder. So is a meter. But again, how is this useful? Do you often need to measure twice the distance from your wrist to your shoulder, and get an answer that’s only accurate to within a few inches? > [@Flyer](#): > > Height of people is measured in a conveniently-small number – 5 feet, 6 feet, etc. Why in the name of common sense would anybody want to say 1.xx meters, or (alternatively) have to use literally hundreds of centimeters? Very few people are exactly five feet or exactly six feet tall. Height is normally given in feet and inches, which is TWO small numbers. You have to use two numbers because neither feet nor inches is convenient (in your sense) for this measurement. You’re ok with saying that you weigh 165 pounds, but it’s unreasonable to say that your height is 165 centimeters? Why is 165 an ok number in the domain of human weight but not in the domain of human height? > [@Flyer](#): > > We have ounces and pints for small amounts of liquid, and gallons and barrels for large amounts. Yes, how HANDY it is to switch between several different units which are difficult to interconvert, depending on the size of what you’re measuring > [@Flyer](#): > > When the temperature hits zero, we know that it’s **actually** cold, not warm enough for a light coat. You clearly have no conception of how annoying it would be to have to use negative numbers on a daily basis for months on end. This obviously depends on where you live. Large parts of the US already deal with negative (Fahrenheit) temperatures for much of the winter. And it’s a lot more useful to immediately recognize whether it’s below the freezing point of water, rather than to know that it’s below some arbitrary “really cold” temperature. > [@Flyer](#): > > 25 mph is a good speed for a residential street, which is appropriate, since it’s a fairly small number. And 40 km/hr is so obviously unusable by normal humans. > [@Flyer](#): > > A standard city block is 1/10 of a mile. Actually a standard city block in most cities is 1/8 of a mile, but it’s interesting that you’d prefer that it be a decimal fraction. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/126 "2017-07-30T20:40:19Z")
And I have to say, as a woodworker, this feet, inches and fractions crap is a HUGE pain in the ass. I’ve got a board that’s 5’ 7 3/8" long and I need to drill a hole equidistant from both ends. Where does it go? I’ve got a board that’s 5 1/16" wide and I need to route a 3/4" groove 1 3/8" from one edge. How far is it from the other edge? I waste so much time with these kinds of inconvenient calculations constantly in my woodwork. It would be SO much easier in metric. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/127 "2017-07-30T20:55:59Z")
So what’s stopping you? Last time I checked you could get measuring devices in either system. So use metric tapes and measures. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/128 "2017-07-30T21:04:18Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > = > Actually a standard city block in most cities is 1/8 of a mile, but it’s interesting that you’d prefer that it be a decimal fraction. The typical historical standard in the UK territories was a _Gunter’s chain_ which was 66’ long, with 100 links, broken into 10 segments. It was actually introduced to deal with a move from base 4 to decimal, as a simple divide by 10 resulted in calculations in acres. 25 links = rod 10 chains = furlong 80 chains = statue mile. After they invented transits, or more importantly Vernier gauges, which show fractions the methods mostly changed to calculated angles. But in most of the US the main large unit of surveying is the township that is six by six miles square. The township is usually divided into 36 sections, each one mile square. Each Section was divided into 640 acres, because it was trivial to divide into quarters or quarter-quarters and have full acre subdivided parts. In 1832 the smallest area of land that could be acquired from raw land was this 40-acre quarter-quarter, and this is the reason for _40 acres and a mule_. Later on they added the half of a quarter-quarter-quarter section = 5 acres which is exactly 50 square chains, which is fairly easy to survey with limited technology and still easily divisible without fractions. There is really no standard for the size of a city block, and often it was at the whim of a developer or market realities. Most of the newer “planned” structures tend to be easy fractions of Gunter’s chain or quartering of a township in the US. Also note that lots of “metric” countries still use this system for measuring land. The cost and complexity of changing every single deed and marker greatly outweighs the benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/129 "2017-07-30T21:05:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **rat avatar** : > > Once again, this is a problem with people not specifying units of measure, and can be a problem within a single measuring system too. Not at all: The recipe very clearly indicated teaspoons, tablespoons, pints, and so on. I just don’t know _which_ teaspoons, tablespoons, and pints. You need to specify when you’re using those units. You never need to specify what kind of kilometers you mean. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/130 "2017-07-30T21:21:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not at all: The recipe very clearly indicated teaspoons, tablespoons, pints, and so on. I just don’t know _which_ teaspoons, tablespoons, and pints. You need to specify when you’re using those units. You never need to specify what kind of kilometers you mean. Oh come on, unless your cook was Australian there are exactly two that you have to try. US and UK. By the way, the most likely reality is that it is in the UK customary units, as it is still in common use in baking in the UK. Either way, in this case you are making bread, which primarily depends on the ratios of flour/water/yeast/sugar/fat/salt and not some arbitrary unit of measure. Maybe you should try using a rational method? Or maybe consider that most good bakers tend to make adjustments for the flower humidity etc…on the fly? Also consider that they may be keeping a yeast culture, and just like SF sour bread it just will never be the same. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/131 "2017-07-30T21:27:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The third and most serious problem with the American system is that it isn’t a standard. People use the same words to mean many different things. “Pound” usually means the weight of 454 grams, unless you’re talking about precious metals, in which case it’s less. Or unless you’re using it to mean the _mass_ of 454 grams, in which case you have a separate unit called the “poundal” for forces. Or maybe you use “pound” to mean both the weight and the force, and have to stick g in all over the place in formulas that have nothing to do with Earth’s gravity. “Ounce” can be a weight or a volume, and even for water (supposedly the basis), the two don’t quite agree. A “ton” can be long or short. The most extreme case of this is the barrel. I once counted no fewer than 6 different barrel units, although to be fair, one was a metric barrel, which at 50 liters, was by far the smallest of the bunch. (Not sure why it wasn’t 100 liters.) The others varied depending on what one was measuring (beer, wine, petroleum) and for one of them, which country (US vs UK). > [@](#): > > A pint’s a pound the world around, as long as by “the world” you mean "only the US, not anywhere in the British Commonwealth, where a pint of water is a pound and a quarter. This one is a problem for everyone, and if a unit doesn’t mean the same thing for everyone, it’s useless. It’s not even exact in the US. A US gallon of water is about 8.3 pounds, IIRC, so a pint is a little bit more than a pound. > [@DPRK](#): > > Reminds me of the genius attempt to redefine a kilobyte as 1024 bytes (2.4% free!), and traces of that are unfortunately still with us. A kilobyte has always been 1024 bytes. You may be thinking of PC marketing which called 1000 K (instead of 1024 K) a megabyte. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/132 "2017-07-30T21:50:14Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > A kilobyte has always been 1024 bytes. You may be thinking of PC marketing which called 1000 K (instead of 1024 K) a megabyte. The 8 bit byte was not universal, and was only fully popularized eight-bit microprocessors of the 1970’s and it actually changed the meaning of the word. Originally it was a collection of bits \*smaller \*than machine’s word size and the char encoding methods which started in 6 bits and expanded to 8 bits in EBCDIC/ASCII grew to the current size. But eight-bit processors used the term for their word size too due to those encodings. But the important part for responding is the 1000K kilobit, as storage was related to characters stored it had been calculated in base 1000 from the mid 60’s and beyond. It is the PC world, which tossed away “words” for memory and used the non-sub-word-size byte as a measurement that started to use the 1024K model. Consider the drum storage of the IBM 305 RAMDAC which could hold 32 tracks of 100 characters on each platter. Cite but warning, it is a huge PDF > **[22-6264-1-IBM-305-RAMAC-ManualOfOperation.pdf](https://www.ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/22-6264-1-IBM-305-RAMAC-ManualOfOperation.pdf)** > > 27.29 MB But in this case, the PC industry is to blame and the storage companies were consistent. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/133 "2017-07-30T21:58:37Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > First “The Metric System” outside of SI is not cohesive nor universal and in fact there were three major completely different versions. The SI is what countries adopted, and not one of the random other versions. No. What countries adopted as a practical standard were the SI base units, _ **plus** _ the directly derived units, _ **plus** _ units that could be used alongside the SI units. This was in response to [your comment](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20379069&postcount=102) that “Celsius is not the SI unit of temperature, that is Kelvin”. Celsius is a derived unit with at least the same standing in SI as the litre and the tonne (metric ton). It maps to Kelvin perfectly as it has exactly the same units and merely a different definition of its zero point, which is why it’s used throughout the world as the metric unit of temperature, and used concurrently with Kelvin in scientific publications where one or the other is preferred depending on what is being described. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > As for wine, the sub-bottle serving size is simply the glass: But would that be a normal size glass or a [Keg size](https://www.kegsteakhouse.com/menu-detail/?id=6451&parent=755/) glass? 😉 (I happen to know this because I was just there, where they will happily relieve you of $36 just for two glasses of a decent California Cab to go with your meal!) Anyway, you seem to be trying very hard to make the point that the US uses metric units in some circumstances, and other countries continue to use non-metric units in certain cases, and so it’s all more or less the same. It certainly is not. The US in fact has long harbored a unique and disparaging hostility to the metric system, and we see some of that right here in this thread (I don’t mean from you, but for example in the quote I was ridiculing, and some of the comments that came after). ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/134 "2017-07-30T21:59:48Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > 212 for boiling and -32 for freezing? Doesn’t make all that much sense to me. Well, at -32 not much would make sense to you, you’d probably be dying. That is 64 degrees below the temp that water freezes at, which is +32deg F The scale actually does make logical sense, even though based on limited technology 0F is kind of like an absolute 0, at least it was for mr fahrenheit. yes flawed, be centigrade could be considered just as flawed in that aspect. 0 is water freezing temp, but only fresh water. Yet most of the water in the world is saline. And if you live in the arctic or antarctic circles, 0 degrees anything is totally meaningless because you are magnitudes colder. 😃 > [@](#): > > Daniel Fahrenheit did not use the freezing point of water as a basis for developing his scale. He called the temperature of an ice/salt/water mixture ‘zero degrees’, as this was the lowest temperature he could conveniently attain in his lab. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/135 "2017-07-30T22:06:40Z")
You know, I’ve asked this before, but no one ever gives a satisfactory answer. In the USA specifically, what does “going metric” actually mean? Highways signs are stupid and minimal and have no impact, but if you really want people to adopt the system, the only way is abridge their freedom of speech. Ban American units recipe books. Prohibit packaging from mentioning ounces. Regulate the quantities bars can serve, and prohibit their speech. Anyone (like me) can freely choose to use the metric system without serious Constitutional challenges. Anything else borders on tyranny (and I’m not being sarcastic). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/136 "2017-07-30T22:09:22Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The 8 bit byte was not universal, and was only fully popularized eight-bit microprocessors of the 1970’s and it actually changed the meaning of the word. > > Originally it was a collection of bits \*smaller \*than machine’s word size and the char encoding methods which started in 6 bits and expanded to 8 bits in EBCDIC/ASCII grew to the current size. But eight-bit processors used the term for their word size too due to those encodings. I’ve never heard the term “byte” used to describe anything other than an 8-bit quantity, and if it was it certainly wasn’t widespread usage. The concept of the “byte” first came into prominence well before the 70s, with the introduction of the IBM System/360 series which was byte-addressable and whose word size was four bytes in contrast to other mainframes (36 bits was a popular word and datapath size), and then DEC’s PDP-11 minicomputer followed by its successor the VAX, both architectures being byte addressable. I’m pretty sure these milestone systems had far more influence on the industry and its standards and nomenclature than the microprocessors of the time. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/137 "2017-07-30T22:18:02Z")
Again, in 2009 a random survey of retail products in the US showed that 17% were labeled _only_ in metric units, no dual labeling. **elmwood** ’s prediction of 2010 was off, but I would not be surprised if the trend quietly continues. As for this binary kilobytes business, it is not so much a matter of changing the meaning as a (deliberate?) misunderstanding of metric prefixes. Remember these are standard, and the people misusing them are likely not computer scientists, maybe certain engineers or marketing folk in the PC industry who have not quite grasped the metric system. I do not know offhand of any catastrophic disaster caused by this confusion, but that does not mean it cannot or has not happened (some critical system running out of memory, perhaps?) If one really wants to count in powers of two, which I cannot imagine why you’d want to, the IEC has sanctioned special prefixes like Ki, Mi (I have also rarely seen KK, MM) for this purpose. ETA 4-bit and 6-bit bytes, and all sorts of weird word sizes, are considered old-school, but they have been used. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/138 "2017-07-30T22:18:04Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No. What countries adopted as a practical standard were the SI base units, _ **plus** _ the directly derived units, _ **plus** _ units that could be used alongside the SI units. This was in response to [your comment](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20379069&postcount=102) that “Celsius is not the SI unit of temperature, that is Kelvin”. Celsius is a derived unit with at least the same standing in SI as the litre and the tonne (metric ton). It maps to Kelvin perfectly as it has exactly the same units and merely a different definition of its zero point, which is why it’s used throughout the world as the metric unit of temperature, and used concurrently with Kelvin in scientific publications where one or the other is preferred depending on what is being described. > > But would that be a normal size glass or a [Keg size](https://www.kegsteakhouse.com/menu-detail/?id=6451&parent=755/) glass? 😉 (I happen to know this because I was just there, where they will happily relieve you of $36 just for two glasses of a decent California Cab to go with your meal!) > > Anyway, you seem to be trying very hard to make the point that the US uses metric units in some circumstances, and other countries continue to use non-metric units in certain cases, and so it’s all more or less the same. It certainly is not. The US in fact has long harbored a unique and disparaging hostility to the metric system, and we see some of that right here in this thread (I don’t mean from you, but for example in the quote I was ridiculing, and some of the comments that came after). I am saying that the “only three country’s” claim is baseless without stating what that standard is. But thanks pointing out that the Keg is a canadian chain, not exactly my cup of tea but they have a ton of them around here. But the point is that **all federal government agencies are required to use the metric system as their primary unit of measure.** I actually cited the exact document in the federal register stating that point. I want to be exactly clear, that I am not accusing you of this but the “Only three countries in the world don’t officially use the metric system” claim seems false, there is no bar that anyone seems to be able to define based on it and as your link shows not all other countries have fully converted. So to me this seems to be a bigoted, or hateful claim, and because there is apparently zero ability to actually define what “officially accepting” the SI units is it leads to exchanges like this. So once again, in an effort to “fight ignorance” what would the US have to do to not be subjected to this disparaging claim? I feel like we have enough valid problems to not resort to folklore. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/139 "2017-07-30T22:26:31Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Anyone (like me) can freely choose to use the metric system without serious Constitutional challenges. Anything else borders on tyranny (and I’m not being sarcastic). People have been nailed for this in Britain, but I am not so sure it was meant as tyranny: even in the US you cannot make up your own scales and weights and units and label products however you see fit. The consistent standards are supposed to ensure fairness on behalf of the consumer. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825/140 "2017-07-30T22:28:08Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > You know, I’ve asked this before, but no one ever gives a satisfactory answer. In the USA specifically, what does “going metric” actually mean? Highways signs are stupid and minimal and have no impact, but if you really want people to adopt the system, the only way is abridge their freedom of speech. Ban American units recipe books. Prohibit packaging from mentioning ounces. Regulate the quantities bars can serve, and prohibit their speech. > > Anyone (like me) can freely choose to use the metric system without serious Constitutional challenges. Anything else borders on tyranny (and I’m not being sarcastic). I’m surprised you never got an answer because I would think the answer is fairly obvious. The government already regulates weights and measures in the interest of facilitating commerce, standardization, and the general public good. And there are very good reasons for that. You can’t go around selling an alleged five-pound roast or a ten-pound sack of potatoes with your own unique definition of what a “pound” is (six ounces!) and use “free speech” as a defense. The metric system is a science-based, rational and coherent system of measures with long-term benefits for everyone and it’s government’s job to regulate and encourage things that are in the public interest. Going metric doesn’t involve “banning cookbooks” or any other libertarian horror-fantasies. You can’t “freely choose” to use metric on your own – that doesn’t even mean anything, since the underlying concept of a “standard” is that it is, well, standard – everybody uses it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-in-usa-with-1-litre-soda-pop-is-usa-on-metric/124825.md?page=8)