You fall in the same trap as so many people who have no idea about what exactly must be understood by “Shari’a Law”.
You fall also in the same trap as many people who percieve “The MENA Region” as if it is about one and the same country, people, culture, government.
Your comparison with communism makes me wonder if you have any idea at all about anything considering Islam, Shari’a Laws, the Mena region etc… I
Israel can hardly be called a democracy.
What you take for an explanation about governments and law implementation in the countries of the MENA region explains again that you have no idea about it/them.
I’m so sorry to disappoint you that in those countries the laws are implemented and enforced since that is the reason for the existence of laws.
You seem to think we live in lawless nations. You even make it sound as if an organisation like the one named Al Qaeda dictates our life. Thank you for that enlightening information, but no… It does not.
What you have right is that the USA supports governments in the region who are not only incompetent and abusive, but who are percieved - rightly - as US servants.
Which provides groups like for example Al Qaeda a fertile and ever expanding ground for recrutement. But that is not the only ground; it is only one of them and of course on your side the most obvious since the most visible in the media.
You talk about corruption as if that is an invention of the MENA region. I’m sorry but corruption upto the highest level is present in every society. I wouldn’t like to be given the task to clean it up worldwide. I woudln’t even like to make it an issue of study since that would keep me busy for the rest of my life.
You talk as if there is in the MENA region no possibility to do business with non-inhabitants. Sorry, but this makes me really laugh. I do business with non-inhabitants both inside and outside my country. There a
What is a problem is the lack of foreign capital because of the lack of interest to invest.
This is partially caused by a State-led economy which in many cases was an adventure started with optimism and good intentions, but that due to a variety of causes and reasons came to a point to miss completely its goal.
If you want to read about the MENA region and its political and economical problems, who are like everywher on this globe intertwined, I can recommend you some good studies if you like.
If you want a brief explanation about the Shari’a, its history and how and to which extend it influences constitutions in the so called Islamic nations I can post it, but not in this topic since that isn’t the question of the OP.
You fall in the same trap as so many people who have no idea about what exactly must be understood by “Shari’a Law”.
You fall also in the same trap as many people who percieve “The MENA Region” as if it is about one and the same country, people, culture, government.
Your comparison with communism makes me wonder if you have any idea at all about anything considering Islam, Shari’a Laws, the Mena region etc…
Israel can hardly be called a democracy.
What you take for an explanation about governments and law implementation in the countries of the MENA region explains again that you have no idea about it/them.
I’m so sorry to disappoint you that in those countries the laws are implemented and enforced since that is the reason for the existence of laws.
You seem to think we live in lawless nations. You even make it sound as if an organisation like the one named Al Qaeda dictates our life. Thank you for that enlightening information, but no… It does not.
What you have right is that the USA supports governments in the region who are not only incompetent and abusive, but who are percieved - rightly - as US servants.
Which provides groups like for example Al Qaeda a fertile and ever expanding ground for recrutement. But that is not the only ground; it is only one of them and of course on your side the most obvious since the most visible in the media.
You talk about corruption as if that is an invention of the MENA region. I’m sorry but corruption upto the highest level is present in every society. I wouldn’t like to be given the task to clean it up worldwide. I woudln’t even like to make it an issue of study since that would keep me busy for the rest of my life.
You talk as if there is in the MENA region no possibility to do business with non-inhabitants. Sorry, but this makes me really laugh. I do business with non-inhabitants both inside and outside my country. I’m not a unique case. I’m also not persecuted nor in any possible danger because of this.
What is a problem for the whole region - and that is also no a unique case on this globe - is the lack of foreign capital because of the lack of interest to invest.
This is partially caused by State-led economies which in many cases was an adventure started with optimism but that due to a variety of causes and reasons came to a point to miss completely its goal.
If you want to read about the MENA region and its political and economical problems - who are like everywhere on this globe intertwined - I can recommend you good studies if you like.
If you want a brief explanation about the Shari’a, its history and how and to which extend it influences constitutions in the so called Islamic nations I can post it, but not in this topic since that isn’t the question of the OP.
I distinctly remember voting for opposition parties. Still here to tell the tale… Didn’t exactly hide my opinions, either…
Now if you want to say that Israel is a flawed democracy, be my guest… I’ll even help you point out some of the flaws Then again, just about every democracy is flawed in some ways.
I agree that in some ways Israel tends to democracy.
Yet having a variety of political parties including opposition isn’t exactly a guarantee for a working democracy.
I can also vote for several parties including the opposition, yet I wouldn’t describe my nation as a normal working democracy. And we even have a constitution. (And I don’t mean Belgium which was my mother’s homeland and which is a normal working democracy)
In my view Israel has the potential for a real democracy whenever it finally has a normal and democratic constitution written, voted and implemented.
Salaam. A
You want to expand on what exactly you DO define as ‘democracy’ then Aldebaran? As well as which parts you think that Israel doesn’t do that makes them NOT a democracy? If you make a bold statement like this “4. Israel can hardly be called a democracy.” you need to back it up with a bit more than this:
From Aldebaran
What IS a democracy then in your mind if its not being able to vote? What exactly is that that makes you say “Israel can hardly be called a democracy”? How can they ‘hardly’ be called a democracy? Are their elections rigged? At its base, thats what democracy IS…representative government. Could you expand a bit on this to tell us exactly what you are getting at?
Aldebaran - my post earlier was very laid back, and reasonable, and open to polite and studious correction (if need be). Please, learn to relax and be constructive - instead of being so epicly defensive. We’ll all benefit.
By the way, all of the above is why I asked for Tamerlane’s opinions and not yours - Tamerlane has a proven track record of correcting someone politely and reasonably if it’s warranted. I’m not above being corrected, I’m happy to stand corrected if that’s the way it is. But you Aldebaran tend to make people feel very uncomfortable when you do so and that’s not cool. Slamming someone and telling them know nothing 4 or 5 times in one post does very little to aiding informed and reasonable debate.
Forgive my bluntness there. You’ve got things to offer - please take my thoughts on board.
ok ok guys… Aldebaran went over the top again… back to the subject.
(Aldebaran… more measured opinions tend to draw less flack. Careful with the words used. Most would agree with Flawed or distorted democracy… not Hardly though. )
hehe… as for Israeli democracy… would you like to be a Palestinian in the Israeli Democracy ? Getting to vote versus being treated like a citizen seems like a big gap there. I’d rather be treated like a person myself…
Then again... other repressed minorities seem to get way less attention. Like democrats in the US. :)
I meant they’d rather live under Israeli rule than Palestinian rule,just as African-Americans would much rather live under US government than any African government.
The point is, the US and Israel are constantly seeking to improve their internal civil rights records. I see no efforts for the Palestinian Authority to be more inclusive towards women, gays, or racial and religious minorities in their territory.
Israel constantly seeking to improve their internal civil rights records ? What drugs are you on ? Its almost a war out there… civil rights being disregarded left and right. Or shooting missiles into cars is similar to arrest warrants and due process ? (Yes I know Israeli police are trying to be more fair and stuff like that… but it hardly balances the military action.)
I doubt palestinians won’t prefer self rule. Americans thought British rule wasn’t for them either. Never mind that Britain was the most democratic nation on earth at the time. Arafat will suck at it… but they will be conned by their own people.
African-americans are americans… not Africans btw. BAAAADDD comparison. Maybe they should send the Irish home… the jews to Israel/Europe and the italians back ?
**Israel constantly seeking to improve their internal civil rights records ? What drugs are you on ? Its almost a war out there… civil rights being disregarded left and right. Or shooting missiles into cars is similar to arrest warrants and due process ? (Yes I know Israeli police are trying to be more fair and stuff like that… but it hardly balances the military action.)
**
I’m talking about within Israel proper.
**I doubt palestinians won’t prefer self rule. Americans thought British rule wasn’t for them either. Never mind that Britain was the most democratic nation on earth at the time. Arafat will suck at it… but they will be conned by their own people.
**
The West Bank Palestinians would prefer self-rule, and who can blame them? But Israeli Arabs tend to prefer being Israeli citizens.
I guess, but I get confused sometimes. Some papers report all Arabs within Israel as Palestinians. After all, they do live in Palestine.
Plus, Palestinians are not a distinct ethnic group. They are the same Arabs as you’ll find in Syria, Iraq, Jordan, or Oman. So the designation of a person of Arab descent as “Palestinian” tends to be rather arbitrary.
Two kinds of Palestinians under Israeli rule: Citizens (within the 1948 armistice lines + East Jerusalem) and non-citizens (all the rest)
Citizens: Enjoy the exact same legal rights as any other Israeli citizen, including the rights to vote and to be elected (there are nearly 10% Arab representatives in Parliament).
Comparison to Blacks in the US is a fairly good one, in that they seem to get the short end of the economic stick, and there is a fair amount of apprehension about then by non-Arabs. OTOH, there have been a fair number of Israeli Arabs colloborating with terrorists, so the leeriness towards them is (IM oh-so-objective O :)) somewhat justified - more so than toward American Blacks.
Non-citizens: they are what all the flak is about…
Then again, just about every democracy is flawed in some ways.