# Whats the deal with Atlantis? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 29, 2001, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691 "2001-04-29T01:54:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/1 "2001-04-29T01:54:31Z")
I have heard many myths and rumors and even seen “proof” of the lost city of Atlantis. So I wanted to know, does anyone have the truth about this subject? ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/2 "2001-04-29T01:59:45Z")
[Here](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_069.html) is what Cecil has to say about Atlantis. ---
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/3 "2001-04-29T01:59:49Z")
Like there is “proof” of magic? ::rolleyes IIRC, Atlantis was a civilization that Socrates used to cite an example. He used it as a vauge reference, and stated it as spurious and that it had come down by word of mouth to him. I do not know why it has exploded, and how people have gotten away with making up so much information on it. But, no, Atlantis doesnt exist. (Not in the sense of what the common definition is) ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/4 "2001-04-29T02:31:32Z")
[nitpick] Plato. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/5 "2001-04-29T02:43:21Z")
I saw that, My mistake. Actually I think I heard it was Plato, but since the book about Socrates is named Plato, I think I confused that cite. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/6 "2001-04-29T08:46:51Z")
[http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html](http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/7 "2001-04-29T11:27:00Z")
Atlantis is located in Florida, and is being prepared for another launch in June. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/8 "2001-04-29T16:17:26Z")
You just have to fly there on Trans-Love Airways, my antediluvian baby. Ask the Hurdy-Gurdy man. ---
**Author:** ![wariat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@wariat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wariat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/9 "2001-04-29T16:55:53Z")
According to Graham Hancock, under the Antarctic ice since 10,500 BC (or was it 12,500 BC?) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/10 "2001-04-29T17:46:17Z")
No, no, no… Everyone knows that it was located in the ocean to the west of the Grey Havens, within sight (from the top of its highest mountain) of Tol Eressea. It’s usually known as Numenor, though. ---
**Author:** ![wariat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@wariat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wariat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2001, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/11 "2001-04-29T19:06:41Z")
Well, sonshine, don’t come running to ME on 23 Dec 2012, cuz you bin warned… Anyway, Numenor is really only a race-memory of the real thing under a thin veil of fictionalisation - honest… ---
**Author:** ![asphodel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@asphodel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asphodel)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2001, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/12 "2001-04-30T00:40:31Z")
In his column on Atlantis, Cecil said that one theory holds that" > [@](#): > > \*\*Atlantis was Minoan Crete. \*\* The most popular current theory outside the it’s-BS school. It’s been reasonably well established that the center of the Minoan empire on the island of Crete was substantially destroyed by a volcanic eruption on the nearby island of Thera (Santorin) circa 1490 BC. If we assume Plato based the Atlantis story on a legend in which some clueless translator mistakenly multiplied the numbers by ten, the 9,000 years of Plato’s story become 900 years. Behold, 590 BC (Solon’s time) minus 900 equals 1490 BC. What’s more, when reduced by a factor of ten, certain geographic dimensions given by Plato for Atlantis, plus a lot of the descriptive detail, accord reasonably well with what’s known about Minoan Crete. [disclaimer] not that I believe the following, but… [/disclaimer] I saw a television special recently on TLC about Atlantis, not that this is by any means a definitive source on the subject. The final, and least ludicrous theory they offered was that Atlantis may have been **Thera** (ie. modern Santorini). This is explained as a mistranslation of the original Plato, in which it is commonly translated that Atlantis is “larger than Africa and Asia”. This is one reason why some people believe that Atlantis was in the Atlantic, because it wouldn’t fit in the Mediterranean. However, some people say that it should have been translated as being “_between_ Africa and Asia”. Hence the island of Thera, northwest of Crete, fits this description. There is also archeological evidence to suggest that a civilization on Thera was destroyed by a volcanic eruption, around the 1500BC time mentioned in Cecil’s article. The position of the TLC show was basically that Atlantis was probably Thera instead of Crete because Thera was completely destroyed by the eruption (in keeping with the Atlantis myth), and while Crete did suffer damage, it was still fit for human habitation. ---
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2001, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/13 "2001-04-30T02:18:36Z")
So, uh, who actually said it then. According to the article **brother rat** linked us to it was Socrates. Plato, as I understand it, was Socrates’ student of some sort of commited to put his teachings to paper. I could be wrong in this, but when I interview somebody, and they say something, the original quote is attributed to the person saying it, not the inverviewer/journalist. So is Cecil wrong in this? Or is there some hush hush theory that I havn’t heard about that states that Plato is really Socrates? ---
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/14 "2001-04-30T02:20:55Z")
Or…perhaps Crit, who appears to say something about it first is really a pen name for Plato.?? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2001, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/15 "2001-04-30T02:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*No, no, no… Everyone knows that it was located in the ocean to the west of the Grey Havens, within sight (from the top of its highest mountain) of Tol Eressea. It’s usually known as Numenor, though. \*\* But it is the High elves that named it Atalante, that is the downfall of the Men of the West, in the Qenya tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Arken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@Arken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arken)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2001, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/16 "2001-04-30T02:59:32Z")
> [@](#): > > So, uh, who actually said it then. According to the article brother rat linked us to it was Socrates. Plato, as I understand it, was Socrates’ student of some sort of commited to put his teachings to paper. I could be wrong in this, but when I interview somebody, and they say something, the original quote is attributed to the person saying it, not the inverviewer/journalist. So is Cecil wrong in this? Or is there some hush hush theory that I havn’t heard about that states that Plato is really Socrates? In a sense, yes. Socrates himself did not leave any writings. The only way we know he existed is that people who knew him (and studied under him) wrote about him. So, Plato wrote what Socrates supposedly said, but IIRC, Platonic descriptions of the philosophies of Socrates differ from his contemporaries. There are two explanations that I can see for this. 1. Socrates never existed. He was the ‘teacher’ Archetype which Plato and his buddies tossed around whenever they needed that sort of figure. 2. Plato (or his friends) used Socrates’ name to spout their own philosophies. IMO, a much more likely theory. Socrates’ existence certainly has more credibility to it than Homer’s or even Jesus’ simply because the accounts about him are written by people who knew him while he was alive. (Before you argue that New Testament accounts were too, it’s pretty firmly established that the books of the New Testament were oral tradition for some time after the death of Jesus and his contemporaries before they were committed to paper. I am not saying that Jesus did or did not exist.) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2001, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-atlantis/63691/17 "2001-04-30T03:03:17Z")
Plato was a student of Socrates who allegedly recorded the dialogues Socrates had with various people in his (Socrates) attempts to discover Truth. Socrates was executed. Plato continued to write up Dialogues by Socrates. There is some debate over which specific Dialogues were the ones where Plato’s purported position as recorder gave way to the Dialogues actually being a vehicle for Plato to express his own ideas. However, the Kritias is usually and the Republic is _always_ seen as Plato using the _character_ Socrates as a mouthpiece for his own opinions. Atlantis appears to be Plato’s invention without any help from Socrates.