# What's the deal with Black Flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437 "2016-03-28T04:45:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/21 "2016-03-28T16:31:02Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That might be a good interpretation. To take it a step further (and again, I don’t know any Black Flag or Misfits music), there are probably a lot of people that wear Grateful Dead clothing or have a Grateful Dead keychain or bumper sticker but couldn’t name a single GD song. It’s not that they like GD music, it’s that they like the idea of the music and what it stood/stands for. Ya know, I love Black Flag, and hate the Dead. I’ve known lots of people who have stickers/merchandising of either. None of them seemed to use it as an accessory without listening to their music. To the OP: I can’t say why Black Flag keeps showing up on your radar, other than they’re still around in one form or another, doing reunion tours. Also, there’s some possibility that the logo has fallen into “generic use”, so they may be able to use it free of charge. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/22 "2016-03-28T17:22:52Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Wonder if they sell Black Flag stuff at Hot Topic? I know a lot of teens are wearing Nirvana and Misfits stuff, but they probably couldn’t name 5 songs by those bands. I think the logos and image appeal to them more than the music. Yes, they do. (I have two teenage nieces who like their stuff.) Henry Rollins hosted a series on The History Channel a year or two ago, and “The Decline of Western Civilization” series has been shown on Turner Classic Movies twice in recent months. (There’s a part 3, BTW - made in the late 1990s.) Black Flag is in part 1 but he wasn’t in the band yet at the time. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/23 "2016-03-28T18:15:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Out on the road today, I saw a Black Flag sticker on a Cadillac. This is a CS thread, so we’re talking about music. Musical abortions go in GD. 😃 > [@control-z](#): > > Wonder if they sell Black Flag stuff at Hot Topic? I know a lot of teens are wearing Nirvana and Misfits stuff, but they probably couldn’t name 5 songs by those bands. I think the logos and image appeal to them more than the music. Sure they can! There’s “Mother.” And uhh that “Truly Outrageous” song? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/24 "2016-03-28T21:19:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Out on the road today, I saw a Black Flag sticker on a Cadillac. Ok, that make me smile. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/25 "2016-03-28T22:03:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Out on the road today, I saw a Black Flag sticker on a Cadillac. Out on the road several years ago, I saw a “YYZ” license plate on a minivan. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/26 "2016-03-28T22:53:48Z")
I wasn’t deep into the punk scene but I liked Black Flag and had some of their stuff. (Kira’s got the 10 1/2!) 😉 Hank Williams III has parodied both the Blag Flag and Misfits logo. [http://tshirtslayer.com/tshirt-or-longsleeve/hank-williams-iii-barshonky-tonkin-shirt-2008](http://tshirtslayer.com/tshirt-or-longsleeve/hank-williams-iii-barshonky-tonkin-shirt-2008) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/27 "2016-03-29T03:15:56Z")
Black Flag was one of the biggest if not the biggest and most influential American hardcore bands who also toured a lot. Their live shows were raucous, physical, teenage testosterone fueled and loud. And hella fun. Maybe the wildest thrash pits you would find. They founded SST records. Many would argue that the pre-Henry band was the best. Decline and Fall of Western Civilization is a pretty good snapshot. The other 2 hardcore bands that were around the same level and influence, longevity, touring power, etc would be the Dead Kennedy’s & DOA (who were Canadian). You could nominate a few others, but I don’t think other bands like the Circle Jerks, Fear, Germs, Minor Threat had anywhere near the stamina, volume of material or live shows under their belt to be anywhere as influential as Black Flag was. One could plausibly argue that Black Flag epitomized and to a large extent created the LA hardcore scene I probably saw Black Flag around a dozen times in San Franciso and Sacramento and once in LA. I interviewed them for a college radio station. Chuck Dukowski was the most interesting (psycho biology major at Cal State), Greg Ginn was alright, Henry is pretty full of himself. They went through a lot of drummers and none were memorable IMHO. Jus’ so you know, the phrase “Black Flag kills ants on contact” was a play on hardcore vs new wave as epitomized by Adam Ant. “Kills hippies dead” was targeted at left over long haired “hippies” in the music scene (long before the Grateful Dead made it into the mainstream) and the punks generally had the skinhead or really short haircuts. Having long hair at a Black Flag show could be kinda dicey if one didn’t have a good sense of humor about it (not saying that was right but 15 year old skinheads can be dicks). ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/28 "2016-03-29T04:09:36Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > You could nominate a few others, but I don’t think other bands like the Circle Jerks, Fear, Germs, Minor Threat had anywhere near the stamina, volume of material or live shows under their belt to be anywhere as influential as Black Flag was. One could plausibly argue that Black Flag epitomized and to a large extent created the LA hardcore scene I would argue for Ian MacKaye’s influence (Minor Threat et al.), but you’re right that during their short lifespan, they only put out one album. > [@](#): > > Greg Ginn was alright I glossed over it, but he has a reputation lately for being an asshole. It could be just that other people are at fault, but it’s a common story. > [@](#): > > Jus’ so you know, the phrase “Black Flag kills ants on contact” was a play on hardcore vs new wave as epitomized by Adam Ant. Well more directly, a play on [a product used to kill ants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Flag_%28insecticide%29). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/29 "2016-03-29T04:44:23Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Well more directly, a play on [a product used to kill ants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Flag_%28insecticide%29). Sorry, not trying to be a jerk, but in in the interest in fighting ignorance by a punk rock that was deep into it at the time. Black Flag was an obvious play on the insect killer and/or “under a black flag” (no quarter asked or given). However, in the band Black Flag context, “Black Flag kills ants on contact” was specifically used regarding New Wave in general and specifically for [Adam Ant](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=adam+ant&view=detailv2&&id=B16335FE66C98CCCA62B6378EE8C95CA68C42E8E&selectedIndex=8&ccid=Tk6OnHAm&simid=607993213422143291&thid=OIP.M4e4e8e9c70263251c157ba3ddf2da3e6H0&ajaxhist=0). My point on the trio of the most influential bands is both their body of work, and the fact that Black Flag, DOA and Dead Kennedy’s toured incessantly for years to every little local VFW hall or other dive that would rent out their place. If you were a punk in the early 80’s, it was impossible to not have had the opportunity to see any of these bands multiple times. Ian MacKaye / Minor Threat was an influence, Flex Your Head a seminal work, straight edge oft copied but IMHO didn’t show their chops live enough long enough. And one of the top all time shows that I could go back in time to see would have been the Minor Threat, The Big Boys and Trouble Funk show in DC (Biscuit from the Big Boys said that was probably his favorite gig of all time). ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/30 "2016-03-29T04:45:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Out on the road today, I saw a Black Flag sticker on a Cadillac. [2:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47FRn_ye5lc) ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/31 "2016-03-29T05:04:24Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Having long hair at a Black Flag show could be kinda dicey if one didn’t have a good sense of humor about it. or if it was (briefly) Rollins himself. Don’t ask HR about my hometown Victoria, he might recall avoiding the Dayglo Abortions, post-gig, at the Rat’s Nest, where he was hoping to crash, but with Spud blowing a deck’s-worth of smoke in his face, among other shenanigans, HR just slunk on his own down to the flooded basement. ('81) Needless to say BF didn’t come back here.☹ > [@China\_Guy](#): > > The Big Boys and Trouble Funk show in DC (Biscuit from the Big Boys said that was probably his favorite gig of all time). quick thread de-railing - Was one of my top five drummers - the inestimable Mr. Rey Washam - playing with the Big Boys then, or was it their earlier drummer Fred Schwartz? Nice to see Hank Williams Jr. pulling off the three bar thing. Maybe he should re-work the D.R.I. symbol with crutches. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/32 "2016-03-29T06:13:37Z")
That Hank III logo is hilarious. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > Black Flag was one of the biggest if not the biggest and most influential American hardcore bands who also toured a lot. Their live shows were raucous, physical, teenage testosterone fueled and loud. And hella fun. Maybe the wildest thrash pits you would find. They founded SST records. Many would argue that the pre-Henry band was the best. Decline and Fall of Western Civilization is a pretty good snapshot. > > The other 2 hardcore bands that were around the same level and influence, longevity, touring power, etc would be the Dead Kennedy’s & DOA (who were Canadian). You could nominate a few others, but I don’t think other bands like the Circle Jerks, Fear, Germs, Minor Threat had anywhere near the stamina, volume of material or live shows under their belt to be anywhere as influential as Black Flag was. One could plausibly argue that Black Flag epitomized and to a large extent created the LA hardcore scene > > I probably saw Black Flag around a dozen times in San Franciso and Sacramento and once in LA. I interviewed them for a college radio station. Chuck Dukowski was the most interesting (psycho biology major at Cal State), Greg Ginn was alright, Henry is pretty full of himself. They went through a lot of drummers and none were memorable IMHO. > > Jus’ so you know, the phrase “Black Flag kills ants on contact” was a play on hardcore vs new wave as epitomized by Adam Ant. “Kills hippies dead” was targeted at left over long haired “hippies” in the music scene (long before the Grateful Dead made it into the mainstream) and the punks generally had the skinhead or really short haircuts. Having long hair at a Black Flag show could be kinda dicey if one didn’t have a good sense of humor about it (not saying that was right but 15 year old skinheads can be dicks). Thanks for this post. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/33 "2016-03-29T06:55:41Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Sorry, not trying to be a jerk, but in in the interest in fighting ignorance by a punk rock that was deep into it at the time. And none of that is contradictory. Which ignorance are you speaking about? > [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > Nice to see Hank Williams Jr. pulling off the three bar thing. Maybe he should re-work the D.R.I. symbol with crutches. Hank Jr. is busy saving golf courses from Muslim Presidents. Hank III is the sometimes punk musician. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/34 "2016-03-29T10:48:30Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Black Flag was one of the biggest if not the biggest and most influential American hardcore bands who also toured a lot. Their live shows were raucous, physical, teenage testosterone fueled and loud. And hella fun. Maybe the wildest thrash pits you would find. They founded SST records. Many would argue that the pre-Henry band was the best. Decline and Fall of Western Civilization is a pretty good snapshot. > > The other 2 hardcore bands that were around the same level and influence, longevity, touring power, etc would be the Dead Kennedy’s & DOA (who were Canadian). You could nominate a few others, but I don’t think other bands like the Circle Jerks, Fear, Germs, Minor Threat had anywhere near the stamina, volume of material or live shows under their belt to be anywhere as influential as Black Flag was. One could plausibly argue that Black Flag epitomized and to a large extent created the LA hardcore scene > > I probably saw Black Flag around a dozen times in San Franciso and Sacramento and once in LA. I interviewed them for a college radio station. Chuck Dukowski was the most interesting (psycho biology major at Cal State), Greg Ginn was alright, Henry is pretty full of himself. They went through a lot of drummers and none were memorable IMHO. > > Jus’ so you know, the phrase “Black Flag kills ants on contact” was a play on hardcore vs new wave as epitomized by Adam Ant. “Kills hippies dead” was targeted at left over long haired “hippies” in the music scene (long before the Grateful Dead made it into the mainstream) and the punks generally had the skinhead or really short haircuts. Having long hair at a Black Flag show could be kinda dicey if one didn’t have a good sense of humor about it (not saying that was right but 15 year old skinheads can be dicks). Nice post. I assume you’ve read Our Band Could Be Your Life? You would love it. So - SF in the punk years, eh? I am sure we were in similar spots. I was a young idiot meeting girls at DNA and DV8, but had friends who hung out at the Fab Mab and the Stone and Bottom of the Hill and listened more to Flipper and the Dead Kennedys and some of the local metal bands before hair metal got a band name. Ever heard of a band called Head On? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/35 "2016-03-29T23:52:26Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Nice post. I assume you’ve read Our Band Could Be Your Life? You would love it. > > So - SF in the punk years, eh? I am sure we were in similar spots. I was a young idiot meeting girls at DNA and DV8, but had friends who hung out at the Fab Mab and the Stone and Bottom of the Hill and listened more to Flipper and the Dead Kennedys and some of the local metal bands before hair metal got a band name. Ever heard of a band called Head On? No, missed Head On and haven’t read Our Band Could Be Your life but put that on the reading list. On Broadway, Tool and Die, Clubfoot, the Elite Club, Fab Mab were the main venues. Few others across the bay like the Berkeley Square. On Broadway for most of the shows. Lots of time with the Maximum Rock n Roll crowd. Circa 1980-85. Flipper was definitely a made in SF band. Had a real cultural exchange when Flipper went to NY and the Bad Brains came to SF. 🙂 Fun times ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/36 "2016-03-30T00:49:38Z")
Dez was my favorite BF singer. Henry though a great voice is a dick. Fuck him. Half way through Get in the van I really wanted to punch him. Looking forward to reading Disco’s Out, Murder’s In about the LA punk gangs of the eighties. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/37 "2016-03-30T00:51:39Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > Are you calling it a Packaged Rebellion? The revolution will be merchandised. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/38 "2016-03-30T01:21:18Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Having long hair at a Black Flag show could be kinda dicey if one didn’t have a good sense of humor about it (not saying that was right but 15 year old skinheads can be dicks). I don’t know. I remember seeing them years and years ago in NYC (with the Circle Jerks as opening act!). My hair was then, as it is now, very long. Ponytail long, halfway down my back. Nobody gave me a hard time. I had fun. Got in the mosh pit and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/39 "2016-03-30T04:10:38Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Dez was my favorite BF singer. > > Henry though a great voice is a dick. Fuck him. Half way through Get in the van I really wanted to punch him. Lisner Auditorium, July, 1982, Dead Kennedys show. They were having muchas problemas with the equipment, so Henry, standing directly behind me, took advantage of the long lapses to heckle Jello Biafra relentlessly and mercilessly. And some more beyond that. No idea how somebody that angry ever managed to stay out of prison. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/40 "2016-03-30T04:59:17Z")
Rollins still has cred with the millenials, the occupy kids and the bernie sanders fans. He’s still relevant. Here’s his endorsement of Bernie: [![](https://i.imgur.com/removed.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/removed.png) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437.md?page=3)