# What's the deal with Black Flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437 "2016-03-28T04:45:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/41 "2016-03-30T05:39:08Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Black Flag was one of the biggest if not the biggest and most influential American hardcore bands who also toured a lot. Their live shows were raucous, physical, teenage testosterone fueled and loud. And hella fun. Maybe the wildest thrash pits you would find. They founded SST records. Many would argue that the pre-Henry band was the best. Decline and Fall of Western Civilization is a pretty good snapshot. > > The other 2 hardcore bands that were around the same level and influence, longevity, touring power, etc would be the Dead Kennedy’s & DOA (who were Canadian). You could nominate a few others, but I don’t think other bands like the Circle Jerks, Fear, Germs, Minor Threat had anywhere near the stamina, volume of material or live shows under their belt to be anywhere as influential as Black Flag was. One could plausibly argue that Black Flag epitomized and to a large extent created the LA hardcore scene Shouldn’t X be in this conversation somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/42 "2016-03-30T06:01:02Z")
X, undoubtedly influential, is more of a punk band, compared to Black Flag - one of the first and seminal hardcore bands. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/43 "2016-03-30T06:03:47Z")
Rollins is a pussy piece of shit. He was mouthing off backstage at a 83 SF concert and someone dotted his eye. He ran away like a punk. His “I Kill Niggers” tattoo on SOA was laughable. Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/44 "2016-03-30T10:34:30Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > X, undoubtedly influential, is more of a punk band, compared to Black Flag - one of the first and seminal hardcore bands. I kinda agree on this. X were an excellent example of the end of punk’s first wave; Black Flag were the beginning of hardcore. I love Billy Zoom! Amazing guitar player - one of the many that fly in the face of the “punk guitarists couldn’t play” meme. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/45 "2016-03-30T10:49:07Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Henry Rollins looks like Jim Carrey’s character in _Me, Myself, and Irene_. Other way around, really. Rollins has really made the “neck muscles tensed to bejeezus” thing his own. > [@Smapti](#): > > Out on the road today, I saw a Black Flag sticker on a Cadillac. \ > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Hank Jr. is busy saving golf courses from Muslim Presidents. Is he still ready for some football? I had a friend in college who was a big Black Flag and Dead Kennedys fan but I was always on the fringe of the scene. I used to be into Rollin’s spoken word and solo musical output but have moved on. (I also saw Jello Biafra do a speaking gig. Weird but engaging.) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/46 "2016-03-31T00:20:44Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > X, undoubtedly influential, is more of a punk band, compared to Black Flag - one of the first and seminal hardcore bands. Apples and Oranges. X may have had much broader influence on more mainstream music, but X wasn’t really considered hardcore. And IMHO X wasn’t a significant influence on the hardcore bands, and certainly not in comparison with Black Flag, DK’s, DOA, et al. In fact, as soon as X started getting more mainstream Exene was quick to say “we’re not punks, those were the only places we could play in those early days.” Someone else can correct me, but I don’t recall X playing any of the hardcore dives in San Francisco. Or put it a different way, I never saw X at any of the literally hundreds of hardcore shows I went to in northern California. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/47 "2016-03-31T01:59:07Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > And IMHO X wasn’t a significant influence on the hardcore bands, and certainly not in comparison with Black Flag, DK’s, DOA, et al… X had absolute zero influence on hardcore - I should have specified that they were influential in being a major factor in putting L.A. on the punk map '77 - '80. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > In fact, as soon as X started getting more mainstream Exene was quick to say “we’re not punks, those were the only places we could play in those early days.”. yeah, sad but true (in the words of Siege) Just remembered…some dumb kid back in the day with a BF tat, but the bars weren’t fucking staggered - they were all evenly aligned. XD ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/48 "2016-03-31T04:01:17Z")
I met Rollins a couple of times when I was a teenager before and after Black Flag shows in the 1980s. Both times he was very courteous and respectful to me even though I was a nobody. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/49 "2016-03-31T04:47:48Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > Are you calling it a Packaged Rebellion? They got Burtons suits, they think it’s funny Turning rebellion into money ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/50 "2016-03-31T06:19:24Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I don’t know anything about their music, but Henry Rollins hasn’t slowed down at all. I believe he’s still making music and/or spoken words albums, plus he does a lot of acting. Rollins has said that he’s pretty much done with music. He said all he had to say, and he sees no point in going on the oldies circuit exhuming old songs when there are so many other things to do with his life. I admire that stance. Not that I have anything against bands who decide to go on the oldies circuit, but seeing a guy refusing to rest on his laurels is pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/51 "2016-03-31T17:55:02Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > They got Burtons suits, they think it’s funny > Turning rebellion into money 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/52 "2016-03-31T18:55:11Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Rollins has said that he’s pretty much done with music. He said all he had to say, and he sees no point in going on the oldies circuit exhuming old songs when there are so many other things to do with his life. I admire that stance. Not that I have anything against bands who decide to go on the oldies circuit, but seeing a guy refusing to rest on his laurels is pretty cool. I admire that he’s not reliving his Black Flag days. Both Greg Ginn (Black Flag) and Chuck Dukowski (Flag) have reformed and toured. Lawsuits between the both of them over the name “Black Flag” and other behavior that would have seemed antithetical back in the hardcore heyday. A few years back, my high school aged nephew had a 7 seconds belt buckle. 7 Seconds probably plays more and is much bigger than they were back in the day. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/53 "2016-04-01T07:49:29Z")
Also, founding vocalist Keith Morris formed the supergroup [OFF!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUezxT8CB5g) in 2010. They’re not a cover band at all, and I personally like them more than The Circle Jerks (I’m a total whore for McDonald’s bass playing). So, it’s possible to reject living off of your past without forsaking music entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437/54 "2016-04-01T09:49:43Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Also, founding vocalist Keith Morris formed the supergroup [OFF!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUezxT8CB5g) in 2010. They’re not a cover band at all, and I personally like them more than The Circle Jerks (I’m a total whore for McDonald’s bass playing). > > So, it’s possible to reject living off of your past without forsaking music entirely. I note the continuation of the bug spray band name theme. very droll. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-black-flag/750437.md?page=2)