# Whats the deal with Cocaine and Tobacco traces found on Mummies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762 "2012-04-23T23:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/21 "2012-04-24T18:39:18Z")
> **[Nicotiana benthamiana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotiana_benthamiana)** > > Nicotiana benthamiana, colloquially known as benth or benthi, is a species of Nicotiana indigenous to Australia. It is a close relative of tobacco. > A synonym for this species is Nicotiana suaveolens var. cordifolia, a description given by George Bentham in Flora Australiensis in 1868. This was transferred to Nicotiana benthamiana by Karel Domin in Bibliotheca Botanica (1929), honoring the original author in the specific epithet. > The plant was used by people of Australia as a stimulant, con... > [@](#): > > The plant was used by peoples of Australia as a stimulant - it contains nicotine and other alkaloids - before the introduction of commercial tobacco (N.tabacum and N.rustica). The indigenous names for it include Tjuntiwari and Muntju. > **[Erythroxylum australe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythroxylum_australe)** > > Erythroxylum australe is a shrub or small tree endemic to northern Australia. The plant is known by a variety of names including Brigalow erythroxylon shrub and dogwood (unrelated to Cornus). > The plant grows in a wide variety of habitats in subcoastal and coastal regions, ranging from dry rainforest and vine thickets to open savanna woodland. > The leaves contain 0.8% meteloidine, an alkaloid similar to cocaine. All Erythroxylaceae species are banned in NSW. > [@](#): > > The leaves contain 0.8% meteloidine, an alkaloid similar to cocaine. All Erythroxylaceae species are prohibited plants in NSW. > **[Nicotiana alata](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotiana_persica)** > > Nicotiana alata is a species of tobacco. It is called jasmine tobacco, sweet tobacco, winged tobacco, tanbaku, and Persian tobacco. > Nictoiana alata is mainly grown as an ornamental plant; numerous cultivars and hybrids are derived from it. In Iran, narghila tobacco is sometimes produced from N. alata; it is not chopped like cigarette tobacco, but broken up by hand. > Has a lovely fragrance in the evening to night. Most varieties bloom late-afternoon to evening. Seedlings do best when gradually... Cultivated in Iran, but wiki doesn’t say how old the species is. > **[Nicotiana africana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotiana_africana)** > > Nicotiana africana is a species of plant in the family Solanaceae. It is endemic to Namibia. Its natural habitats are subtropical or tropical dry shrubland and rocky areas. > > This Solanales article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. Native to Namibia, but wiki doesn’t say whether it has enough nicotine to be interesting. > **[Erythroxylum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythroxylum)** > > 250+, see text > Erythroxylum is a genus of tropical flowering plants in the family Erythroxylaceae. Many of the approximately 200 species contain the tropane alkaloid cocaine, and two of the species within this genus, Erythroxylum coca and Erythroxylum novogranatense, both native to South America, are the main commercial source of cocaine and of the mild stimulant coca tea. Another species, Erythroxylum vaccinifolium (also known as catuaba) is used as an aphrodisiac in Brazilian drinks and herb... Lists lots of species, but doesn’t have much info on most of them. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/22 "2012-04-24T19:30:13Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > I don’t think that’s correct. Tobacco has been grown in PA since colonial times. The Amish still grow it: > > [Tobacco In Amish Country | Cigar Aficionado](http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/Tobacco-In-Amish-Country_7556) > > They cite a $22 million annual crop. > > And here’s the [USDA stats on PA (PDF),](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nass.usda.gov%2FStatistics_by_State%2FPennsylvania%2FPublications%2FSurvey_Results%2Facreageann12.pdf&ei=l-6WT7ihCouPigKNrriHCg&usg=AFQjCNEhONJQzWvQ5fY531-mrIvd1Z9adw&sig2=Q1NNbGFHI_XmD4hl8A-jBw) which lists last year’s tobacco crop as being 601 million pounds. > > Not enormous, but still significant. You just don’t see many dedicated tobacco-only farms in PA. But lots of Central PA farms include tobacco as part of their mix. It IS correct – I didn’t sayu that you didn’t see ANY, just not a lot. My point is that it’s more profitavble and easier to grow it further south. But Canadians can’t do that, so they grow it as far south as they can. I’m still amazed that it’s profitable – if it were really profitable to grow it that far north, there’d be more vfarms in the Mid-Atlantic states than there are. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/23 "2012-04-25T00:56:39Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > [Erythroxylum australe - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythroxylum_australe) This page has some more info and states that it it found not only in Northern Australia but also in Papua New Guinea, Indonesia and Thailand: [http://www.gwannon.com/species/Eriocaulon-australe](http://www.gwannon.com/species/Eriocaulon-australe) It’s pretty well established that trade links existed between India and SE Asia more than 2000 years ago, and then between India and Persia and between Persia and Egypt. eg see here: [http://zeenews.india.com/news/from-the-past/india-s-ancient-trade-links-with-se-asia-found\_650356.html](http://zeenews.india.com/news/from-the-past/india-s-ancient-trade-links-with-se-asia-found_650356.html) It’s pretty awesome to imagine that native “Australian” Cocaine might have been cultivated in Indonesia or Papua New Guinea and then traded 20 or 30 times taking 2 or 3 years to get there before ending up in some Pharaohs hands. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/24 "2012-04-25T04:31:17Z")
Before we write an Australia \<-\> Egypt narrative, is there a reason to believe they couldn’t tell cocaine and meteloidine apart? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/25 "2012-04-25T05:57:32Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > According to the following _N. frangrans_ tobacco is “native to America and naturalized” elswhere: > > [cite](http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1221285?uid=3739256&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=47698920851937) 😕 That article is about _Nothoscordium fragrans_, an onion, not _Nicotiana fragrans_, a tobacco. And looking around, it appears that _Nicotiana fragrans_ has been subdivided into several species, with _Nicotiana fragrans_ now restricted to New Caledonia and Polynesia, and the Australian and African forms reclassified as separate species. What that is based on and whether it has any bearing on human distribution I have no idea. Bloody taxonomists. Lose touch for a couple of decades and they go and split every bloody thing that they don’t lump. Anyway, the point is that the remains that there were species of \*Nicotiana \* (now apparently called _N. africans_) in Africa and Indonesia 3, 000 years ago. So the presence of nicotine in mummies doesn’t require any Old World connection. > [@](#): > > I was unable to find any cite yea or nay regarding presence outside South America of any _Erythroxylum_ species with enough cocaine in it to be be noticeable after processing by any technique availabe in ancient Egypt. Be nice to have some documention for that. I can’t find anything to that effect, but a lot of these aren’t analysed and what had been analysed is behind paywalls. The main point is that that closely related species were available to Egypt,and without knowing exactly what tests were done we can’t know what exactly they were testing _for_. The Old World Erythroxylum species certainly contain plenty of psychoactive tropanes, and many “drug tests” will return those as a positive cocaine result. > [@coremelt](#): > > This page has some more info and states that it it found not only in Northern Australia but also in Papua New Guinea, Indonesia and Thailand: > [http://www.gwannon.com/species/Eriocaulon-australe](http://www.gwannon.com/species/Eriocaulon-australe) That page is about _Eriocaulon australe_, not _Erythroxylon australe_. Very different plants. The \*Erythroxylon \*is confined to Australia and New guinea. Not that it matters much. There are at least a dozen \*Erythroxylon \*species indigenous to areas from Southern Australia and Central India. The point being that this is a Gondwanan genus, not one restricted to the Old World. And its members seem to have been used as drugs everywhere they grew. A drug finding its way form India to Egypt wouldn’t be very surprising at all since, as you note, those trade routes have existed for millennia. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/26 "2012-04-25T07:33:10Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Before we write an Australia \<-\> Egypt narrative, is there a reason to believe they couldn’t tell cocaine and meteloidine apart? I’m suggesting at most an Indonesian-Egypt trade route which is far more plausible. The mainstream response to the finding is according to Wiki to concentrate on old world sources of Tobacco and Cocaine which I guess means the tests are not specific enough to narrow down exactly which species the traces came from. theres an indepth article here (scroll down) [http://www.thehallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&file=article&sid=45](http://www.thehallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&file=article&sid=45) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/27 "2012-04-25T08:26:26Z")
[quote=“coremelt, post:26, topic:619762”] I’m suggesting at most an Indonesian-Egypt trade route which is far more plausible. I agree, but reading the link you provided, even that seems overly elaborate. > [@](#): > > theres an indepth article here (scroll down) > [http://www.thehallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&file=article&sid=45](http://www.thehallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&file=article&sid=45) A few interesting quotes: > [@](#): > > Cocaine is present also in other Erythroxylum species native to South Africa, Madagascar and Mauritius in amounts less than those found in Erythroxylum coca. So there are known sources of cocaine on the _same freakin’ continent_ as the mummies. Yet for some reason people want to ascribe the presence of cocaine in the mummies to New World trade. Ockham’s Razor should be wielded with great force here. If a source of cocaine exists in regions with which the Egyptians were known to have trade routes, we should assume that was the source fo the cocaine to which the Egyptians had access. Invoking trans-Atlantic trade seems plain silly in light of this information. > [@](#): > > Pre-Christian pipes made from clay, wood, bronze and iron have been found in Switzerland, France and Germany. “Bauerntabak”, literally farmers tobacco, was described in several European herbals written in the sixteenth century and was classified, along with Nicotiana tabacum as either a type of “bilsenkraut” or as a kind of Hyoscyamus. From the seventeenth century farmers tobacco became known as Nicotiana rustica and was erroneously accepted as being of American origin when wild and domesticated varieties were already known in Europe prior to Columbus. Farmers tobacco may have had Asiatic origins, Conrad Gesner considered in 1561 that it had been imported from Syria and it has also been maintained that the Persians were also aware of this type of tobacco. Nicotiana fruticosa is also known to grow in regions of China, where it was domesticated and was known by its Chinese names “cay-thüóc-än” and “yen-yé”. > > Additionally a species of tobacco, Nicotiana africana, has recently been identified as indigenous to Namibia in South West Africa. It is therefore not unreasonable to suspect that other species of tobacco may have grown in Egypt, or in the surrounding regions, and that this could account for the high amounts of nicotine identified in these Egyptian mummies. So we know that local species of tobacco were used in both Europe and Asia in pre-European times, and Egypt was collecting tribute Asia and from places within a hundred and fifty miles of Europe. And tobacco grew on the same continent as Egypt at the time. Once again, Ockham’s razor comes into play. I really don’t see why anyone would consider the presence of cocaine or nicotine to be evidence of New World trade. It’s a totally unwarranted assumption. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/28 "2012-04-25T09:22:34Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > I don’t think that’s correct. Tobacco has been grown in PA since colonial times… > > And here’s the [USDA stats on PA (PDF),](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nass.usda.gov%2FStatistics_by_State%2FPennsylvania%2FPublications%2FSurvey_Results%2Facreageann12.pdf&ei=l-6WT7ihCouPigKNrriHCg&usg=AFQjCNEhONJQzWvQ5fY531-mrIvd1Z9adw&sig2=Q1NNbGFHI_XmD4hl8A-jBw) which lists last year’s tobacco crop as being 601 million pounds. > > Not enormous, but still significant. Yep. According to [a 2003 report from the Congressional Research Service](http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/assets/crs/RL30947.pdf), Pennsylvania ranks ninth in tobacco farm acreage, putting it in about the middle of the pack for tobacco-producing states. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762/29 "2012-04-25T10:47:18Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > I really don’t see why anyone would consider the presence of cocaine or nicotine to be evidence of New World trade. It’s a totally unwarranted assumption. I agree, I never knew there was South East asian plants with Cocaine like alkaloids and I never knew there was African Tobacco plants. Once again the dope fights ignorance. Thanks to Blake for his extremely specific responses. Personally I find what it reveals about the trade network from Egypt to Africa and SE Asia to be more interesting than any potential egyptians in the new world scenario. BTW that article also contains a fascinating factoid that some types of Gems found only in Afghanistan were found in Egyptian tombs, so the trade network was at the very least from Egypt to Afghanistan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-cocaine-and-tobacco-traces-found-on-mummies/619762.md?page=1)