What's the deal with DVD?

[Angel_of_the_Lord]

Originally posted by John Harrison
DVD is better in all aspects except for recording ability.

Actually, I believe that there’s one other thing that DVDs are not clearly superior in: rentability.

I have never had a problem with a VHS tape that I’ve rented. They’ve always been watchable–there’s never been a part that I couldn’t access. With DVDs that I’ve rented, however, I’ve had problems where I couldn’t watch part of the movie–it was too badly damaged for me to get to that sector. The two most notable ones were Dogma and T2–both very annoying, as they’re very good movies.

See, IMHO, DVDs are more easily damaged than VHS tapes. You home theater enthusiasts will take very, very good care of your DVDs, I’m sure. They won’t be grapped by a small child, or used as a cupholder, or scraped against the disk holder in your DVD player. If–heavens forfend!–something WERE to happen to the DVD, you could easily whip out your $29.99 DVD Doctors and fix up the disk lickety split.

Those of us who can’t afford to buy our own copies–yeah, I’ve got a cool 20 to drop on a disc I’m going to watch maybe twice–don’t have the option of taking care of our disks. We are forced to attempt to watch disks that the previous renter allowed little Emma and Jordan to use a as a friggin’ Frisbee. We must cringe through, blatant pixelization, and sometimes downright freezing and unwatchability, unless, of course, we wish to spend thirty bucks on a DVD doctor. Which we don’t because we are poor bastards.

So we rent VHS. Yeah, the image quality isn’t as good. Yeah, we don’t get to learn that the person who plays Our!Heroine! was a stunt double in Debbie Does Dundee. But we get to watch the freakin’ movie without having to trek back to the video store to ask for another copy, which is all we really want anyway.

Otherwise, yeah, DVD is much better for just about everything else.

[Tamerlane]

This does seem to be unwinnable argument ( if you can call it that ).

Priceguy - See your philosophy of “revolution, not evolution” and “good enough, is good enough” in terms of entertainment technology is just never going to make much sense to a lot of us. It’s very much on par with a friend of mine who thinks it is wasteful to spend thousands of dollars on a quality stereo system, since a boombox is “adequate” for reproducing music. I find that way of thinking sort of incomprehensible, but each to their own.

However the impression you seem to be giving, as *John Harrington pointed out above, seems to be one of self-righteous superiority on the topic ( much like my friend used to be with his boombox, until I pointed out how silly he was being about it ). The incremental advances in audion and video quality, the numerous convenience factors, the increased duarability, the more convenient size, the little ( or not so little ) extras that are increasingly standard on DVD releases - All make the format vastly superior for many of us. That’s reason enough. As revolutionary as the VCR? Nope. A pretty decent improvement over the VCR? Yep.

I still do keep a VCR around for the rare occasions I tape off of network TV these days. Otherwise its all DVD. Of course I start at an advantage - For the most part I never got into the habit of buying movies on VHS. That’s changed with DVD’s, so in that sense I’m “starting fresh” with this medium.

• Tamerlane

[John_Harrison]

I have never had a problem with a VHS tape that I’ve rented.

I can see your point. I, however, have had the exact opposite experience. Crap VHS rentals, but 100% good DVD rentals (so far).

Of course, now I’ve jinxed myself and the streak is over…

[Alereon]

Angel of the Lord: Many times I’ve rented VHS movies that were badly damaged, even unwatchable. DVD movies can be “fixed” by simply rubbing the disk surface from center to edge with a lint-free cloth. There, buttery fingerprints wiped right off. This has fixed all the playback problems I’ve had so far.

[Drastic]

quoth Angel of the Lord:
Actually, I believe that there’s one other thing that DVDs are not clearly superior in: rentability.

To this I must point and grunt (sucker for marketing scams as all DVD consumers are) at Netflix. I can routinely rent movies naked if I wish. I tried that before, but the cops always interfered, and by the time you get all the complications from that straightened out, you have to pay a late fee on the tapes.

[Mr.Blue_Sky]

*Originally posted by Space Vampire *
**Grumpy McStoneage **

Must…resist…urge…to…change…username…

[Tradnor]

*Originally posted by Priceguy *
You wrote $100. Either this is what you meant to write, in which case you must be living in Expensiveland, or you meant $10, in which case the DVD is twice as expensive, which can hardly be an argument in favor of DVDs. It can also be a more exotic typo, of course. If it is, please clarify.

It wasn’t a typo. Before DVD, new releases on VHS were exorbitantly priced in order to sell to video rental stores. After six months to a year, when the rental market had been milked, the price would be reduced to a reasonable $10-20 in order to sell directly to consumers. There were exceptions, but this was the case for the majority of titles. DVD never followed this pricing model, and VHS pricing has since been changed to match.

**But if VHS could be cheap, widescreen, full of special features and lots of things, but isn’t right now, do you really think the correct move is to invent a whole new technology rather than fix the little problems in the old one and shaft all the people who just happen to like the movies they already have? **

If you like what you already have, fine. Keep it. What’s the problem? But in all the years we had VHS, there was no movement toward widescreen, special features, etc. When were these problems going to be fixed? Who would fix them? Answer: Never and nobody. Expecting that VHS would spontaneously improve in the absence of DVD is unrealistic.

[Dunderman]

*Originally posted by John Harrison *
Most movie buffs I know have been dying to see movies that haven’t been butchered by pan & scam and shitty sound, and now we finally have it.

Once again: I’ve never had a problem finding VHS on widescreen. I had no idea there were parts of the world where this was a problem.

So now it is something that we have “fallen” for. Something that isn’t worth the money we pay. Lord knows the above mentioned benefits aren’t actually worth anything, so they must be falling for some sort of scam.

Look at it from my perspective. I see a bunch of people shelling out lots of cash for something I don’t see any advantage with. That’s what I call “falling” for something. I feel the same way about, say, Armani suits. But that doesn’t affect me personally and isn’t nearly as widespread, and so doesn’t anger me so much.

**We get a bit snippy because we don’t feel we should be expected to bow to the lowest common denominator because some don’t “get” it. **

So the lowest common denominator is staying with stuff that works, rather than getting the latest technology whether it’s any good or not? My perspective, remember.

So the reason you’re all angry is my usage of the word “fall”?

**Apparently enough people have “fallen” for the DVD format, and eventually you will probably have to as well if you wish to see movies at home. **

Of course. That’s what I’m pissed about. I thought I’d made that clear.

*Originally posted by Tamerlane *
*However the impression you seem to be giving, as John Harrington pointed out above, seems to be one of self-righteous superiority on the topic

And the impression you guys give isn’t?

*Originally posted by Tradnor *
It wasn’t a typo. Before DVD, new releases on VHS were exorbitantly priced in order to sell to video rental stores. After six months to a year, when the rental market had been milked, the price would be reduced to a reasonable $10-20 in order to sell directly to consumers. There were exceptions, but this was the case for the majority of titles. DVD never followed this pricing model, and VHS pricing has since been changed to match.

I freely admit to being merely a young whippersnapper, with less than 26 years below my belt, but that’s still old enough to remember a time before the coming of DVD, and to have rented and bought movies before DVD meant anything to anyone outside the technical industry. I’ve never seen a VHS tape priced at $100. It sounds totally ridiculous. It’s always been $10-$20.

OK, I’m gonna ask: What’s Netflix?

[Equipoise]

*Originally posted by Priceguy *
**Once again: I’ve never had a problem finding VHS on widescreen. I had no idea there were parts of the world where this was a problem. **

Where are you from? Based on this I would guess…England? If so, then I understand why you’re saying this. My husband and I took a trip to London in the early 90’s and at one point we stopped into…hmmm, Virgin Megastore, I think (some huge store on Oxford Street) and were AMAZED to see all the films in Widescreen VHS. We spent a few hundred dollars buying films there. We knew they were PAL, but we already had a PAL machine. We bought films such as Blade Runner, Die Hard, the Star Wars trilogy box set and several others. We already owned them, but they were in WIDESCREEN! Wow!

The U.S. is totally different. VHS Widescreen movies were a rarity until the last few years, and they’re still uncommon. There wouldn’t even be as many as there are if not for DVD.

I belonged to the Columbia House video club and a couple of years ago they started offering Widescreen movies. DVDs had just started taking hold, but it was before we got into them. I bought every Widescreen title they released, even if it was a movie I wasn’t interested in, just to encourage them. Then we got a DVD player and I switched Clubs.

**Look at it from my perspective. I see a bunch of people shelling out lots of cash for something I don’t see any advantage with. That’s what I call “falling” for something. I feel the same way about, say, Armani suits. But that doesn’t affect me personally and isn’t nearly as widespread, and so doesn’t anger me so much.

So the lowest common denominator is staying with stuff that works, rather than getting the latest technology whether it’s any good or not? My perspective, remember. **

Yes, but we’ve explained to you over and over and over what the advantages are and why DVDs ARE good. We haven’t “fallen” for anything.

**I freely admit to being merely a young whippersnapper, with less than 26 years below my belt, **

My god, by the way you were going on, I had you pegged for 60+. Pardon me while my mind boggles a bit.

Do you like color television and CDs? Both are unnecessary inventions.

I’ve never seen a VHS tape priced at $100. It sounds totally ridiculous. It’s always been $10-$20.

My husband’s mother bought one of the first commercial VHS players (a “VTR”) and BLANK tapes were $25! I can now go into Target and buy 10 for $12.00.

The first 2 pre-recorded VHS tapes my husband and I bought cost around $80.00. Each. On sale.

Sure it was ridiculous. But it was true. Things are much better now. I don’t buy VHS anymore (unless it’s a rare, OOP movie that may not ever be released on DVD) but yeah, prices have dropped. Because of DVD.

**OK, I’m gonna ask: What’s Netflix? **

It’s an on-line DVD rental club. I don’t belong (no credit cards) but it’s cheap and fast. People love it, with good reason from what I hear.

I still own thousands of VHS tapes (as well as Betas and other formats) but I’ve gotten rid of most of my pre-recorded VHS tapes in favor of DVDs. They take up less space, and I love everything about them (espcially the extras).
Eq (who owns about 1100 DVDs now)

[Dunderman]

*Originally posted by Equipoise *
Where are you from? Based on this I would guess…England?

No, Sweden, but thanks for indirectly complimenting my English.

**The U.S. is totally different. VHS Widescreen movies were a rarity until the last few years, and they’re still uncommon. There wouldn’t even be as many as there are if not for DVD. **

OK, that sucks. Didn’t know that.

My god, by the way you were going on, I had you pegged for 60+. Pardon me while my mind boggles a bit.

Boggle away.

Do you like color television and CDs? Both are unnecessary inventions.

I’ve already addressed colour television, which I feel is not unnecessary in the way DVD is. For one thing, it didn’t obsolesce all that came before it; you can still watch black-and-white movies on a colour set, and so on.

As for CDs used for data storage, there was many a time when I (and, I think, virtually anybody who’s ever used a computer with a floppy) wished floppy disks were larger, and so CDs are useful. As for CDs used for music, I find it hard to have an opinion since I didn’t own any music prior to having a computer with an MP3 player.

It’s an on-line DVD rental club. I don’t belong (no credit cards) but it’s cheap and fast. People love it, with good reason from what I hear.

Netflix was used as an argument in favor of DVDs. What about Netflix is “incompatible” with VHS? What property of DVD makes Netflix possible?

[Dunderman]

*Originally posted by Fern Forest *
And some times they throw in something very neat. Like pressing a few buttons and then getting to watch Memento play out in real time rather then backwards.

Missed this somehow. That sounds seriously cool.

[Max_Torque]

*Originally posted by Priceguy *
**Netflix was used as an argument in favor of DVDs. What about Netflix is “incompatible” with VHS? What property of DVD makes Netflix possible? **

The fact that DVDs are small, flat, and light. The way it works is, you pay a monthly subscription fee to Netflix. For your fee, you can have a certain number of movies out at one time. On the netflix.com site, you keep a list of movies that you would like to rent. Movies are shipped to you in little prepaid return envelopes. When you finish a movie, pop it back in its envelope and drop it in the mail, and they’ll send you the next movie on your list.

With VHS, this wouldn’t be possible; the difference in postage rates between shipping a bulky cardboard box versus a small paper envelope is too great. Netflix would have to charge significantly more for their service than the rates you’d find at your local rental shop. The reason Netflix is a success is that their prices are competitive with new-release prices at other rental sources, but they carry a huge selection that no storefront place could manage.

[handy]

“DVD is better in all aspects except for recording ability.”

You need a dvd recorder. They are great.

I use dvds for storage now cause they are smaller, esp if I put them in slim line cases.

One thing that’s really nice about dvds is they are subtitled. VHS only has closed captions, which can sometimes be flakey, but dvd subs are perfect.

[John_Harrison]

Look at it from my perspective. I see a bunch of people shelling out lots of cash for something I don’t see any advantage with. That’s what I call “falling” for something. I feel the same way about, say, Armani suits. But that doesn’t affect me personally and isn’t nearly as widespread, and so doesn’t anger me so much.

Just because you are inable to recognize quality/technological advances doesn’t make them irrelevant. Argh! The arrogance!

So the lowest common denominator is staying with stuff that works, rather than getting the latest technology whether it’s any good or not? My perspective, remember.

Your perspective? sigh It’s like dealing with a broken record. The advantages over VHS are:

FACT: Higher resolution
FACT: Much higher quality sound
FACT: Much more storage space
FACT: Original Aspect Ratio (Anamorphic Widescreen)

Just because you don’t feel these FACTS are important to you does not negate the FACTS. Your perspective does not change reality. I’m sorry that you have to buy new equipment, but it is a fact of life.

[Dunderman]

*Originally posted by Max Torque *
The fact that DVDs are small, flat, and light. The way it works is, you pay a monthly subscription fee to Netflix. For your fee, you can have a certain number of movies out at one time. On the netflix.com site, you keep a list of movies that you would like to rent. Movies are shipped to you in little prepaid return envelopes. When you finish a movie, pop it back in its envelope and drop it in the mail, and they’ll send you the next movie on your list.

There is something similar here in Sweden, that uses VHS. I’ve never used it and so don’t know about the rates, but apparently they’re prosperous. So it’s possible at least.

*Originally posted by John Harrison *
**Just because you are inable to recognize quality/technological advances doesn’t make them irrelevant. Argh! The arrogance! **

Yeah, I’m so much more arrogant than you, aren’t I?

**FACT: Higher resolution
FACT: Much higher quality sound
FACT: Much more storage space
FACT: Original Aspect Ratio (Anamorphic Widescreen)

Just because you don’t feel these FACTS are important to you does not negate the FACTS.**

Still no need to get angry, friend. Once again: I asked for opinions about DVD. I got them. I’ve spoken my opinions about those opinions, and so on and so forth. A couple of DVD aficionados, you included, have, for some reason, taken this personally. Don’t.

I’ve never said that DVD does not have higher resolution, higher quality sound, smaller size or any other property you may care to list. I haven’t disputed the facts; I’ve merely expressed my opinions about them. Once again: this is not a debate.

[John_Harrison]

A couple of DVD aficionados, you included, have, for some reason, taken this personally. Don’t

Personally? WHAT THE F%^#…

You’re right. I reckon I’ll go take a couple of chill pills and relax.

[Hanna]

For me, it is all about picture quality and sound quality. The no rewinding is nice, and I love being able to jump to any scene.

I could watch all my movies on a 13" TV, but I got a big screen instead - because it looks better.

I could listen to movies through the TV’s speakers, but I got a DTS receiver and 6 speakers - because it sounds better.

I could listen to the stock AM/FM cassette radio that came with my van, but I got a CD player - because it sounds better.

I could stick with VHS, but it took one look to see the quality difference with DVD. I choose to go to DVD - because it looks better.

I never bought many VHS tapes. I have 10 at the most. When DVDs came out, I started buying movies. I love DVDs.

[lolagranola]

Even though everyone has pretty much already made my points, I’ll chime in anyway.

*I’m a HUGE FAN of the special features. I’ve always enjoyed documentaries, making-of featurettes, behind the scenes, bloopers, etc. I enjoy listening to commentaries on my favourite movies/TV shows. I’ve already bought many of my faves that I already had on VHS just so I could have the special features. The directors cut of The Fellowship of the Ring? Jam packed with mini-documentaries, interviews and every special feature I could possibly dream of. Plus, the deleted scenes have told me a lot about certain movies. The Wedding Planner, while never destined to become a classic, told me that if they had put the deleted scenes back in, at least it would have raised it to a medicore movie, and many little unexplained things would have made more sense.

*Subtitles. I know that most people don’t really use them or need them, but I’ve spent years trying to watch movies in my small house with kids running around screaming. I can’t tell you how much dialogue I’ve missed over the years. Now? I throw on the English subtitles, and I never miss a plot point.

*Being weird, I love going through frame by frame to check the faces on the stunt doubles.

*Rewinding. Not a big deal on the movies I watch, but when you have a child who has a favourite movie, one click to start the movie over again is a blessing. We’ve done so much rewinding with our huge kids collection of movies, with four kids over 13 years, that we bought a rewinder. Then promptly wore it out.

*More kids stuff. The kids LOVE the special features on the kids movies. Games, trivia, all kinds of stuff. 11 hours of special features on the Shrek DVD alone.

*The ability to make VCD’s on the computer, then watch them on the DVD player. My summer project is putting all of the home movies on VCD. I have one tape that is entirely worn out already. That’s a moment of my oldest’s childhood I’m not going to get back.

*After our CD player broke down, we didn’t have to replace it. Plus, I usually put around 150 songs on a CD in MP3 format, and play it in my DVD player.

A DVD player may not be for everyone. If the features don’t appeal to your lifestyle or movie habits, you’re in luck. Thanks to the DVD revolution, VHS tapes are getting cheaper all the time. And they’ll be getting even cheaper in the next few years, as many video stores will be switching over. Despite the features, I don’t think that the VCR will give it’s last gasping breath until you can easily record on DVD right off the TV. And don’t say TiVo. Currently it’s only available in the U.S and the U.K.

[John_Harrison]

And don’t say TiVo. Currently it’s only available in the U.S and the U.K.

Dude, that sucks. Between Tivo and DVD, I’ve only used my VCR 4 or 5 times the past year.

Has Canadian TV gone digital and widescreen yet? I’m starting to wonder if the US will ever get there.

[Dangerosa]

Love my DVD player. The biggest reasons:

1. DVDs are smaller and relatively permanent compared to tapes. I own a ton of DVDs - and its easy to own them. I have watched tapes often enough to have them ruined or had the VCR eat them. I haven’t ruined a DVD yet.

2. My DVD player holds 5 discs. Which means if the kids are in a Spongebob phase, I can leave the darn disc in there and get it going by pressing a couple buttons on the remote.

3. No need to rewind. Which means if the kids need that Spongebob now, there is no waiting.

(The TiVo is even better though. Great stuff. Completely changed the way we watch TV.)