# What's the deal with goths, anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 13, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657 "2003-06-13T20:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/21 "2003-06-14T03:56:32Z")
I semi-flirt along the edges of goth… most of the time I’m a pretty casual person unless I need or want to dress up. Some of my clothes have a faintly gothic flair, mostly by accident I think. I don’t have to worry about makeup much thanks to my naturally pale complexion… Just a little black here and red there and I look grand. I personally have found most of the goths I know to be fairly sane well adjusted people. Some did have problems, were/are depressed and/or angry people etc… but not more so than any other group I’ve been known to associate with. (Which ranges from Candy Ravers and Goths to fairly ‘normal’ seeming well adjusted adults/young adults. Get togethers of my friends are strange and wonderful things.) I will say though that some goths probably do cling to the whole ‘us against them’ thing and continually agonize more ‘normal’ people. But then so do some from a more visibly different group (whether in that group by choice or not) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/22 "2003-06-14T05:28:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Troy McClure SF \* > FWIW, the few goths I’ve known were very intelligent and open-minded, and I always looked forward to spending time with them. > \*\* Are they open minded about people who wear J.Crew clothes and keep their hair neat? Or do they think that they are capitalist whores who are just waiting to start picking on them? ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/23 "2003-06-14T05:40:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > Are they open minded about people who wear J.Crew clothes and keep their hair neat? Yes. > [@](#): > > Or do they think that they are capitalist whores who are just waiting to start picking on them? No. Who’s picking on who here? ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/24 "2003-06-14T09:42:19Z")
- - - I think that if you go out of your way to look silly, you shouldn’t bitch at being treated like a clown. * * * > [@](#): > > …No one sits around in a three piece suit if they aren’t at work… - Ehhh, , , have you ever heard of the cartoonist Robert Crumb? Now _that_ is one lost puppy. (-warning: very _NOT_ PG-rated material, linking not possible) ~ ---
**Author:** ![Loneraven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c0e974/32.png) [@Loneraven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loneraven)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/25 "2003-06-14T09:48:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > loneraven: I can totally understand where you are coming from, and I wouldn’t presume to stereotype all people who wear black clothes as dysfunctional, and I meant no offense to any person in particular. No offence taken, mate. You’re trying to figure out the stereotype, I understand that. > [@](#): > > You never know what kind of spiky metal things these goths have on their body. 🙂 _pokes **samarm** _ _pokepokepoke_ ---
**Author:** ![mycoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@mycoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mycoman)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/26 "2003-06-14T10:27:16Z")
Back to the OP, I was a little surprised by Samarm’s experience myself, mostly because the vast majority of goths I know are way too polite to harass folks on the street. Not that I don’t know a few assholes, mind you, but they seem to be the exceptions. I teach science in a large (3000 student) high school in upstate NY, so I get a chance to observe pretty much any cultural sub-group you can imagine. Many of the goths have indeed had trouble adjusting to the problems of growing up, but the group provides them with an accepting environment, and I’ve seen a lot of troubled teens over the years learning to cope with the support of their fellow goths. Believe it or not, I like to get them in my classes because they are generally more open-minded than many high-schoolers, and as a rule they don’t label groups of people. There are individuals who have inspired their collective dislike, but they don’t seem to generalize. As for the clothes, most of them that I’ve talked to just like them. If you want to get psychological, I suppose they serve the dual function of attracting like minded people and warning off those who don’t understand. Whatever their motivation, they are often among the best dresed kids. Sorry about your experience, Samarm, but I think if you hung out in my classrooms for a while, you might get a better picture. mycoman ---
**Author:** ![hyperjes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@hyperjes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyperjes)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/27 "2003-06-14T10:35:24Z")
When I was between the ages of about 15 and 22, I was considered a goth. I guess that’s what I called myself too. I wouldn’t have considered myself to be particularly anti-social or negative. Most of my friends dressed the same way and were into the same kind of music. We went to “goth clubs”, where everyone else dressed and acted pretty much the same way. To a degree, it may have been to draw attention to ourselves. On the other hand, most of us were/are creative types. There’s a certain freedom and room for creative expression in the fashion and lifestyle. There are also lots of little “mini-classes” of goth. There’s techno-goth, vampire-goth, etc. So there’s a niche for whatever you’re into, really. Not all “goth” kids wear spikes or makeup. Whatever was behind it, I had to give it up when it was time for a real job. I still like the music, though. And I like to dress up on weekends sometimes. But I look pretty much like everyone else now. ---
**Author:** ![GUINNESS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@GUINNESS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GUINNESS)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/28 "2003-06-14T11:55:41Z")
this is a good funny read http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/jesus/proof/index.html ---
**Author:** ![GUINNESS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@GUINNESS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GUINNESS)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/29 "2003-06-14T11:56:52Z")
…that didnt work…try this [http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/jesus/proof/index.html](http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/jesus/proof/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![finn1911](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d78d45/32.png) [@finn1911](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn1911)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/30 "2003-06-14T12:35:12Z")
I have a rather interesting relationship with a goth couple. They are friends of the fiance from high school. The odd thing about this relationship is that me and the SO are not gothish at all, but we still like to hang out with them. They are very refreshing people actually, they always have great stories to tell and their house is by far the most uniquely decorated place i’ve ever seen with sculls and swords and little freddy crugar figurines and crap 🙂 Getting back to the original post however… i wouldn’t put it past them to yell something like that just to see the response. Part of being a goth for them is seeing the response they get from old ladies and stuff when they walk into a store. It’s a bit of an attention grab i guess. You too can have goth friends! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Woeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Woeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Woeg)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/31 "2003-06-14T12:54:44Z")
I dress in [gothic](http://www.varmouries.com/gothl_01.html) clothing, but I am not the least bit depressed! 😉 [http://www.warehouse23.com/img/sjgames/sjg9116.jpg](http://www.warehouse23.com/img/sjgames/sjg9116.jpg) Sorry all…couldn’t resist. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/32 "2003-06-14T16:34:22Z")
I’m going to echo some earlier comments: I have not found goths to be particularly nasty/antisocial as a group. (Goth will frequently–not always–attract the kids who already feel a bit left out, just as the freak and beatnik styles did, before them, but hostility is not a prominent component of their behavior.) Teens (particularly males) have a bit fewer inhibitions than most people regarding social decorum–particularly when they are in a protective group–so if one encounters a group of hostile male teens, they are liable to behave a bit more offensively than other groups. However, this is clearly true of jocks, frats, or any other collection of young males. It is not a _goth_ trait. Among the goths I know are sullen, furtive creatures of darkness and bright, witty kids who like the appearance of the style. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/33 "2003-06-14T16:48:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DougC \* > > - > - > - I think that if you go out of your way to look silly, you shouldn’t bitch at being treated like a clown. Where in this entire post did anyone bitch about treated like a clown? If I’m not mistaken, the point of the OP was to understand what characteristics and traits are attributed to the general sub-culture group known as ‘goth’. I love how people feel the need to get a dig in at what they don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Misha77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Misha77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misha77)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/34 "2003-06-14T18:04:28Z")
When I was younger, I stereotyped goths as well. But I stereotyped them in a kinda good way – I always pictured goths as these sensitive, intellectual people who listened to the Cure and read Rimbaud, and who knew more about art than I ever will. So I always had a crush on goth guys. Then I met a few of them. I realized that some of them were great and some of them were morons so trying to figure out who they are by their style of dress is just pointless. However, I always thought that there was some measure of contempt from some of the goth community for the people that wore…I don’t know…Gap Capris and pink thongs. Am I completely off base here? I thought there was contempt from both sides–one side for dressing differently, one side for dressing the same. ---
**Author:** ![Pixelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@Pixelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixelle)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/35 "2003-06-14T18:13:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > **So, I’m walking down the street, minding my own. Three goths walking on the other side of the street. One of them shouts at me “I bet you like young boys!”, and they all laughed. I was so suprised that I couldn’t think of anything witty to retort with…** How about, _hey, I bet you like heroin!_ ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/36 "2003-06-14T19:16:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ally424 \* > \*\*“can’t understand that he likes to wear black, nor accept the fact that he is a wicken(sp)”. Basically, a witch ? \*\* It’s wiccan…and just for the record, Goth does not equal Wiccan, nor do all Wiccans dress Goth. I tend to veer more toward the hippie 70’s fringe, gauze, and ruffles stuff. Of course, the SCA does give me outlet for all my corset wearing needs. I love the ‘boobs on a platter’ look _g_ FaerieBeth ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/37 "2003-06-14T19:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought there was contempt from both sides–one side for dressing differently, one side for dressing the same. You’re close, but it really works as: one side for dressing the same and one side for dressing the different same. It has long been a source of humor that the people who rebel in the name of individualism frequently establish a uniform to notify everyone of their individuality. As noted elsewhere: you are truly unique, just like everyone else. (Generic _you_, not directed toward **Misha77**.) ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/38 "2003-06-14T21:31:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FaerieBeth \* > \*\*It’s wiccan…and just for the record, Goth does not equal Wiccan, nor do all Wiccans dress Goth. I tend to veer more toward the hippie 70’s fringe, gauze, and ruffles stuff. Of course, the SCA does give me outlet for all my corset wearing needs. I love the ‘boobs on a platter’ look _g_ > > FaerieBeth \*\* I’d just like to second this. I’m wiccan and my standard “uniform” is jeans, t-shirt and thongs. If I were to be “catagorized” at all, I would probably fall more in line with “preppy” than anything else. Come to think of it, I really only wear all black if I’m going to circle. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/39 "2003-06-15T02:48:13Z")
I’d like to third what **lezlers** and **FaerieBeth** said. I am also a flavor of Wiccan, and I don’t dress in all black. In fact, I don’t have a discernable style. I guess that some of what I wear could be called “Goth.” I like some of the Victorian or earlier style dress. I also sometimes wear a collar. And I love silver jewelry. Thing is, though, I’m a chatterbox. I’m just about never mean–I can’t _bring_ myself to be mean. So, yeah, even if I’m dressed up all goth-y, I’m still perky. Not everyone’s alike; not even all Goths. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657/40 "2003-06-15T03:06:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LolaCocaCola \* > \*\*Or maybe it would’ve gotten yer ass kicked. > > I’m not quite sure. \*\* weren’t you listening? they were goths, I don’t think that would be a problem. (chill, chill. I kid because I love) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-goths-anyway/181657.md?page=3)