# What's the deal with Kevin Smith movies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 10, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668 "2003-01-10T02:51:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/41 "2003-01-10T19:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slacker \* > \*\*By any chance, did you enjoy **Armageddon**? \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fatmac98 \* > **For those of you who think he concentrates on too much dialogue, next time try a Bruckheimer film. Talk about crap.** Man, if only there were more people than Kevin Smith and Jerry Bruckheimer making movies. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/42 "2003-01-10T20:01:47Z")
I like 'em…must be a Jersey thing. I grew up with Jays and Silent Bobs…hell, I was Jay. > [@](#): > > **Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back was the biggest piece of shit I have ever seen. If it is possible to make a “comedy” any more lifeless and unfunny, I’d like to know how.** Dude, I’d be careful. Didn’t you see what they did at the end of the movie to the people who trashed them on the internet? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/43 "2003-01-10T20:26:54Z")
What **Dead0man** , **Gravity** , and **av8rmike** said. Kevin Smith’s dialogue tickles my funny bone just fine, thanks. The “What’s a Nubian?” scene from _Chasing Amy_ is worth the price of admission all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/44 "2003-01-10T20:28:29Z")
When **Clerks** first came out, I thought it was absolutely brilliant. The characters of Randall and Dante reminded me of people I knew, i.e. very intelligent, culturally aware people working in jobs that are clearly beneath their intelligence but at the same time lacking the ambition to try anything better. The dick and fart jokes, well, that’s part of how twenty-something men talked. It was raw, raunchy, funny and, to a great extent, rang true. **Mallrats** was a disappointment. Enough said. **Chasing Amy** , ah, what to say about this film. At times brilliant, and at times maddening. I think I was on board with the movie until the final scene at Holden and Banky’s apartment. The way Holden acted in that scene and the “solution” that he came up with was, IMHO, a jarring example of serious idiocy that contradicted the intelligence of the character seen to that point. I’ve never been able to reconstruct the thought process that led to it. I understand what it’s supposed to be, in the sense that I understand that people argue that cutting taxes increases revenues, but it still never made any sense to me. Skipped **Dogma**. **Jay and Silent Bob** was basically Kevin Smith making a film about how brilliant his films are. It was one of the more excruciating film experiences of my life. When Kevin Smith is on, he’s a sharp and funny writer. I will admit that as a director, he’s no great shakes, but as a writer, he has a gift for accurately capturing the way a certain group of people talk, people who I can identify from my life experiences. When he’s off, he’s a hack who makes truly painful movies. I don’t understand the cult of Kevin Smith, or his own apparent worship of his own work. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/45 "2003-01-10T21:58:53Z")
The screenplays for _Clerks_ and _Chasing Amy_ were combined into a book, and they make for a good read. And Kevin Smith’s introduction to the book is fascinating. It’s true that his directorial style is pretty basic, but I don’t get the impression that he’s embraced that and cultivated it. There are a lot of things he doesn’t do as well as other filmmakers, but I put up with those because the things he does well are things almost no one else even tries. His geek cred is part of it, the whole bit about innocent contractors being killed on the second Death Star is absurd and weirdly insightful at the same time. And there’s humor above and beyond the dick and fart jokes. But there’s something else. Most romantic movies make the lead characters as generically appealing as possible; _Pretty Woman_ for example. Rich, handsome knight rescues damsel in distress, who doesn’t want that? I think the idea is that we’re supposed to fall in love with the characters while they fall for each other. But _Clerks_ and _Chasing Amy_ did something more than that. The couples in those movies belonged together because of the things that set them apart from everybody else. (The best movie for this is _L.A. Story_.) The big problem with _Chasing Amy_ is that the climax is too early. When Holden pulls over in the rain and tells Alyssa how he feels, that’s the high point of the movie. And if you can’t identify with that moment, you’re either very lucky or very unlucky. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/46 "2003-01-10T22:59:33Z")
re: “I wish Smith would lighten up on the dialog.” > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slacker \* > \*\*By any chance, did you enjoy **Armageddon**? \*\* I never saw it, so I’ve got no idea what you’re getting at here… If it’s a slam, sorry it whooshed me. ---
**Author:** ![TheRealJohnPeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TheRealJohnPeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheRealJohnPeat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/47 "2003-01-11T02:06:20Z")
Clerks was a great film - it was 100% driven by superbly entertaining dialog and excellent ‘comic’ characterisation, rather than just being an ‘ass gag’ film. Since then KS’s films have been going downhill tho - Mallralls was a substandard Clerks - Chasing Amy was ‘ok’ but woolly - Dogma was overblown (the prequel comic is better 🙂 and so on and so on. J&SBSB was just terrible tho - a collection of lame gags and in-jokes which felt like the ‘Airplane’ of KS’s career. If he screws up Clerks 2 I think that will be game-over… TTFN JP p.s. The Clerks animated series was just weird - it had moments but it was just ‘weird’… ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/48 "2003-01-11T02:45:55Z")
farts, dick jokes, bathroom humor in general wasn’t that funny when i heard it for free in the third grade… having to pay to watch that crap in a theater is a thought so ridiculous it makes my head hurt. Kevin Smith has shown no ability whatsoever to direct talent, to tell stories visually or to write a script that could stand up even to the standards of a Bud Light commercial. Keep the green light far, far away from any of this cretin’s “projects.” ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/49 "2003-01-11T02:53:16Z")
I’m not a fanboy or even a fangirl, but I enjoyed all of the KS movies. Especially Chasing Amy. ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/50 "2003-01-11T20:45:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheRealJohnPeat \* > \*\*J&SBSB was just terrible tho - a collection of lame gags and in-jokes which felt like the ‘Airplane’ of KS’s career. > > If he screws up Clerks 2 I think that will be game-over… > \*\* Hate to break this to you, but J&SBSB _was_ Clerks 2. It got renamed. And he’s said he’s not ever making another movie with Jay and Silent Bob in it. (Course, who knows. Back in the early 80s, Lucas was quoted as saying there were going to be nine Star Wars films total. Directors can and do change their minds) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/51 "2003-01-11T20:53:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheRealJohnPeat \* > \*\* > J&SBSB was just terrible tho - a collection of lame gags and in-jokes which felt like the ‘Airplane’ of KS’s career. > \*\* You say that like it’s a BAD thing… ---
**Author:** ![bibliophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@bibliophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophile)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/52 "2003-01-12T22:43:37Z")
Funnily enough, as I’m reading this, I just found “Dogma” on comedy central. I have to admit, the overdubbing of the profanity is pretty funny. And what they did to Chris Rock’s ass crack is hysterical! I love Kevin Smith’s movies. Maybe it’s because I’m from Jersey too, or maybe it’s because I live in Red Bank, or maybe I just appreciate dick and fart jokes. Anyone who can manage to weave dick and fart jokes into a movie about unattainable love or faith is OK in my book. Count me among those who love all five movies. I’m looking forward to Jersey Girl too. As much as I love the old characters, I’m interested to see how he manages without them. By the way **Harli** , should we read anything into your name, since Kevin’s daughter is named Harley too? ---
**Author:** ![Harli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c0e974/32.png) [@Harli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harli)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/53 "2003-01-13T00:57:09Z")
**bibliophile** , heheh, Kevin took the name for his daughter from the same place I took my username…the crazy zany Batman villainess/sidekick, Harley Quinn. I gotta be unique though and spell it a little differently…Harli Qwynn 😉 ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/54 "2003-01-13T03:33:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doctor Goo Fee \* > \*\*Kevin Smith has shown no ability whatsoever to direct talent, to tell stories visually or _to write a script that could stand up even to the standards of a Bud Light commercial._ > \*\* Have you ever _ **seen** _ a Kevin Smith film? The man is an incredible writer of dialog–although, not everyone in his films is a good dialogue actor (_cough_Jeremy London\*cough) which can make for some rather stilted scenes. However, when it comes to someone who can deliver witty, well-paced dialogue, like Jason Lee, Kevin Smith films are a perfect vessel. _Clerks_ was great. _Mallrats_ had some problems due to the horrendous acting and delivery of Jeremy London but was, all in all, a good film. _Chasing Amy_ had it’s good and bad parts–well-delivered dialogue (“Archie is NOT fucking Mr. Weatherbee!”). _Dogma_ was good but again, we have an actor (Linda Fiorentino) who has a little trouble delivering the Kevin Smith lines as well as she could, but for the most part, it was good. Now, _Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back_ is mostly good but irritates me in places. Sure, it has hot chicks (in tight leather/vinyl clothing no less) and witty dialogue but the plot was annoying and although a talented comedian, Will Ferrell was just grating at times. I am hesitant to see _Jersey Girl_. I am afraid it will suck. I hate Jennifer Lopez and I’m not sure even Kevin Smith can make me get past that. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/55 "2003-01-13T04:13:06Z")
Those who fear _Jersey Girl_ due to J. Lo’s presence may not have seen _Out of Sight_, which she made before embarking on her unfortunate music career. She was fantastic. Of course, since her diva turn, it’s been one shitfest after another, with the possible exception of _The Cell_. Still, I’m going to give KS the benefit of the doubt (since he did, once again, take me to a movie). > [@](#): > > Will Ferrell was just grating at times. Those times include “day” and “night”. ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/56 "2003-01-18T13:24:06Z")
Kevin Smith is exactly what my friends and I woulda been like, making movies, had someone been dumb enough to finance us. Well, ok, that or Jackass. That said, I’ve thouroughly enjoyed all of his movies with two exceptions: Chasing Amy I had to turn off halfway through. I don’t know why, but I didn’t find it amusing at ALL. It was still more enjoyable than the movie I’m surprised nobody else has mentioned: VULGAR. Yes, that’s right, there’s another Kevin Smith movie. VULGAR. It’s about a clown (played by the guy who played Dante) who decides it will be a good money-making idea to dress up in clown face and a garter belt for parties. Needless to say, some very bad things happen. It more than lives up to its title. And yes, it’s a kevin smith film. He’s in it, as a ‘preppie’… Jay’s in it, kicking at a mattress or something… I rented it at Blockbuster, both DVD and VHS. You may have to ask, depending on where you live. q;} ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/57 "2003-01-18T16:13:19Z")
I don’t think Vulgar was written by Smith. It was a View Askew, and has a lot of the same actors, but I think one of the other guys wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![WolfDaddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dbc845/32.png) [@WolfDaddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfDaddy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/58 "2003-01-18T19:36:21Z")
The reason I love Kevin Smith is that because after watching every one of his movies, some straight guy gets all curious and has sex with me. ---
**Author:** ![Omorka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Omorka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omorka)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668/59 "2003-01-19T02:48:58Z")
I am not Kevin Smith’s target audience. I’m a geek, yes, but I’m not a comic-book geek (The Spouse is, and I do read _Bone_, but that does not a true comic book geek make). I’m also female, and all of his movies seem to be written for a male viewer - the “gaze” of his camera is clearly meant to be a male disembodied viewpoint, as it were. Fart jokes do not make me laugh. I couldn’t finish _Clerks_, and because of that was never tempted to watch _Mallrats_. _Chasing Amy_ got such scathing reviews in the local GLBT weeklies that I didn’t see it out of a vague sense of protest, although having seen later reviews by those two reviewers, it’s entirely possible that they simply didn’t “get” the movie - I don’t know, as I still haven’t seen it. Then I had a problem: Alan Rickman (_swoon_) was in a Kevin Smith movie. I didn’t see it in theaters because a FOAF whose taste is **terrible** insisted I should go, and I chose not to mostly to spite him. But a friend with much better taste (who also liked the movie) knew I was a Rickman fancier and bought me the DVD for my birthday. I loved _Dogma_. No, it’s not great film-making, but it’s a truly funny story. It even made me forgive Affleck and Damon their ineffable smarminess. I don’t find “this is one long in-reference” movies funny, and so I haven’t seen _J&SBSB_, but I did like the _Clerks_ animated series, especially the “Bad Korean Anime” sequence . . . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kevin-smith-movies/147668.md?page=2)