# What's the deal with Kwanzaa **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752 "2014-12-09T12:39:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/41 "2014-12-10T16:47:27Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I teach in a predominantly black area. None of my students, nor any of their parents who were my students before them, give the impression that Kwanzaa is important to them. I can’t remember ever hearing one of them even mention Kwanzaa. Xmas, now, is a big deal. That’s very much on every kid’s mind. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/42 "2014-12-10T16:53:58Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > So what? [So What.](http://www.metrolyrics.com/so-what-lyrics-metallica.html) ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/43 "2014-12-10T16:58:12Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > [So What.](http://www.metrolyrics.com/so-what-lyrics-metallica.html) Metallica! Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/44 "2014-12-10T16:59:15Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Metallica! Nice. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/45 "2014-12-10T17:11:04Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Who cares about the credentials or personality of the person who proposed the holiday? Shall we discuss the personality traits and negative elements for every holiday we celebrate? > > Who cares whether it’s an arbitrary holiday set up with dodgy reasoning? They all were! (Excepting American Independence Day. And … uh … Nope, that’s it.) > > Who cares whether no one you know in your cohort of friends and acquaintances (which is at best a small fragment of your neighborhood, let alone your city, much less your state, not to mention the whole damn country!) celebrates the holiday? Obviously someone does. > > Honestly, I have to question the need for certain types to act all butt hurt about the existence of Kwanzaa. What’s it to you? Seriously. > > If people want to celebrate it, let 'em. Live and let live. It’s a War on Kwanzaa! FoxNews won’t give a rip, but maybe we should contact BET. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/46 "2014-12-10T18:06:14Z")
> [@dangerosa](#): > > now i’m picturing the “ugly kwanzaa sweater contest.” thanks. wbagnfarb ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/47 "2014-12-10T18:13:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s a War on Kwanzaa! Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/48 "2014-12-10T18:19:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am in favor of a holiday in which racist white guys give each other blowjobs while the rest of us eat steak. How come only the white guys get the blowjobs? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/49 "2014-12-10T18:21:55Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > And Christmas is an artificial holiday based on the Roman desire to integrate the new state religion of Christianity with the existing holiday of Saturnalia. Not true. Has nothing to do with Saturnalia. By the time they were celebrating Christmas, Saturnalia had been long gone. Not even on the same day. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/50 "2014-12-10T18:24:00Z")
I worked in Oakland for a while. _No one_ celebrated Kwanzaa that I could see. A few displays. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/51 "2014-12-10T18:27:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How come only the white guys get the blowjobs? > > Regards, > Shodan Asked to choose between giving a blowjob, receiving a blowjob from a guy, or eating a steak, I will always take the steak. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/52 "2014-12-10T18:30:37Z")
\*\*Skald \*\*doesn’t indiscriminately shove just any meat in his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/53 "2014-12-10T20:28:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m sure there are some that celebrate it. They do sell cards, and they wouldn’t sell them if nobody bought them. > [@Diceman](#): > > It was started in the 1970’s by a racist black guy why felt that Christmas was the white man’s holiday, and blacks shouldn’t celebrate it, so he invented an alternative holiday. IIRC, ironically, the man who invented Kwanzaa (at least the “American version”; supposedly, it gets its name from various African harvest celebrations) didn’t like the fact that it had become “commercialized” with Kwanzaa cards and stores selling premade Kwanzaa candle sets. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/54 "2014-12-10T20:54:01Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > And Christmas is an artificial holiday based on the Roman desire to integrate the new state religion of Christianity with the existing holiday of Saturnalia. > > Stranger Nope, it isn’t; Sheldon Cooper notwithstanding. Some aspects, particualrly gift-giving, of the week-long festival (not holiday) may have influenced Christmas traditions, but not its date. However, Christmas was not set up to integrate it. It also wasn’t set up to replace Sol Invictus which was instituted by Aurelian after (or very close to) the spread of Dec 25 as the birth day of our Lord. Furthermore, Dec 25 came about from the idea that Jesus was conceived on March 25th ( the Feast of the Annunciation) which is also the traditional date for the Crucifixion. His birth, then, is 9 months after March 25. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/55 "2014-12-10T20:56:13Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > \*\*Skald \*\*doesn’t indiscriminately shove just any meat in his mouth. I believe I just said that. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/56 "2014-12-10T21:03:31Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Nope, it isn’t; Sheldon Cooper notwithstanding. > > Some aspects, particualrly gift-giving, of the week-long festival (not holiday) may have influenced Christmas traditions, but not its date. However, Christmas was not set up to integrate it. > It also wasn’t set up to replace Sol Invictus which was instituted by Aurelian after (or very close to) the spread of Dec 25 as the birth day of our Lord. > Furthermore, Dec 25 came about from the idea that Jesus was conceived on March 25th ( the Feast of the Annunciation) which is also the traditional date for the Crucifixion. His birth, then, is 9 months after March 25. Don’t forget Yule. The pagans were just having too much fun, so the Xians co-opted them. It wasn’t a conspiracy, that’s just the way it was done, all over the world. That’s part of why some Christian groups have opposed such holidays, or aspects of them. Easter is Eostre/Ostara, and so on. The cathedrals are often on pagan sites. It’s all just made-up nonsense anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/57 "2014-12-10T21:20:19Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Easter is Eostre/Ostara, and so on. . Probably not. Yes, the Venerable Bede did say “Eosturmonath has a name which is now translated “Paschal month”, and which was once called after a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honour feasts were celebrated in that month. Now they designate that Paschal season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance.” But that’s the only period mention, anywhere of that Goddess or that Etymology. No bunnies, no eggs (thats a Lenten custom) nothing. So, _perhaps_ we get the name of the Holiday from a Goddess who gave her name to a month. (or not) . Nothing is known of Eostre, and it’s quite possible that The Bede just got his story wrong. However, that’s no different from “Good Friday”. No one thinks that Holy Day has anything to do with Frigg. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/58 "2014-12-10T21:22:23Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Furthermore, Dec 25 came about from the idea that Jesus was conceived on March 25th ( the Feast of the Annunciation) which is also the traditional date for the Crucifixion. His birth, then, is 9 months after March 25. Except the pieces actually in the Bible reference shepherds in the fields with their flocks and a Roman census as the only clues for date. Neither of those are particularly consistent with December when the weather is crappy. There was plenty of disagreement in the early church about the date of Jesus’ birth. There’s still disagreement. There’s almost nothing in the supposed source document to really say. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/59 "2014-12-10T21:23:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, that’s no different from “Good Friday”. No one thinks that Holy Day has anything to do with Frigg. Some people do. My idiot brother (as opposed to my non-idiot brother) totally buys into the notion that Easter is all about Frigg, and thus insists on calling it Resurrection Sunday. Admittedly my baby sister also calls Easter Resurrection Sunday, but she is not an idiot and I love her, so anyone who calls her an idiot is requesting a slap. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/60 "2014-12-10T21:29:43Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Except the pieces actually in the Bible reference shepherds in the fields with their flocks and a Roman census as the only clues for date. Neither of those are particularly consistent with December when the weather is crappy. Dude- it’s _Israel_, not England. The weather in December is _very dry_, with temps 40-60 degrees F. Sheep are just fine. Yes, the calc was based upon when JC was conceived and then worked backwards. It could well be wrong. The odds are against it being right, for sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752.md?page=4)