# What's the deal with Kwanzaa **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752 "2014-12-09T12:39:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/61 "2014-12-10T21:32:41Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Asked to choose between giving a blowjob, receiving a blowjob from a guy, or eating a steak, I will always take the steak. As I said to my wife last Steak and Blowjob Day, _you just aren’t getting into the spirit of the thing!_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/62 "2014-12-10T22:12:33Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I believe I just said that. I was erasing any lingering doubt. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/63 "2014-12-10T23:27:16Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Kwanzaa was created to annoy and confuse white people, thus compelling them to start [threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=293211&highlight=kwanzaa) [like](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=399661&highlight=kwanzaa) [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=152510&highlight=kwanzaa) [at](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=445618&highlight=kwanzaa) [an](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=677180&highlight=kwanzaa) [uncanny](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=633737&highlight=kwanzaa) [frequency](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508174&highlight=kwanzaa). > > As you can see, it has been very effective in reaching its aims. I was going to say “must be that time of year again”, but you said it better! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/64 "2014-12-11T01:13:46Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I teach in a predominantly black area. None of my students, nor any of their parents who were my students before them, give the impression that Kwanzaa is important to them. I can’t remember ever hearing one of them even mention Kwanzaa. Xmas, now, is a big deal. That’s very much on every kid’s mind. I grew up in an very white rural areal without any Black classmates, neighbours, or friends. Between that and every single cartoon I can remember having the token Black characters celebrate Kwanzaa I was in the 4th grade before I realized Black people actually celebrated Christmas. :o ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/65 "2014-12-11T03:08:29Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Kwanzaa was founded by a left-wing college professor named [Maulana Karenga](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulana_Karenga). > > Based on the bio in his Wikipedia entry, it looks to me like he was a preacher’s kid who turned his back on religion, but still wanted a pretext to demand a week off in December. So he cobbled together a bunch of Marxist rhetoric and Pan-African symbols, and wrapped them around a menorah. This is not the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/66 "2014-12-11T03:09:37Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Who cares about the credentials or personality of the person who proposed the holiday? Shall we discuss the personality traits and negative elements for every holiday we celebrate? > > Who cares whether it’s an arbitrary holiday set up with dodgy reasoning? They all were! (Excepting American Independence Day. And … uh … Nope, that’s it.) > > Who cares whether no one you know in your cohort of friends and acquaintances (which is at best a small fragment of your neighborhood, let alone your city, much less your state, not to mention the whole damn country!) celebrates the holiday? Obviously someone does. > > Honestly, I have to question the need for certain types to act all butt hurt about the existence of Kwanzaa. What’s it to you? Seriously. > > If people want to celebrate it, let 'em. Live and let live. This. Entirely this. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/67 "2014-12-11T04:50:02Z")
Occasionally the local TV station does a Kwanzaa story, sending a reporter up to some community center in the university area where some folks in dashikis are interviewed on the specific rituals. Lighting candles, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/68 "2014-12-11T05:07:32Z")
Kwanzaa is much too artificially constructed to get any real traction. Holidays evolve life. This one’s a ritualized, sanctimonious pamphlet; not a celebration. The spirit of Kwanzaa mightta had a better chance if Dr Karenga were not such an incredibly boring, self-promoting blowhard. It’s almost impossible to chug through the annual message, or get past the Second Principle (you need to buy the book; all rights reserved) without napping off. The largest type on the website side banner is “Make a Donation.” Paypal and Major Credit cards both accepted. Hello? Always makes me laugh to click around the website. Don’t miss the details for the New Year’s Eve Kwanzaa Karamu…hang on; that was 2013. Website’s bottom line: You need to buy the book to understand Kwanza (and probably to figure out why some Egyption-looking guys are displayed so prominently). I don’t think the Onion could outdo Dr. Karenga if they tried. When he checks out, Kwanzaa is toast. Not enough people bought the book. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/69 "2014-12-11T05:25:08Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Here’s an example of the subculture I’m talking about: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi2hmlbgKpI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi2hmlbgKpI) > > If you do a search on Kwanzaa celebrations on youtube, you’ll find plenty of proof that it is a real thing. I dunno, monstro. 162 views…Christmas tree in the background… What you have there is not a “subculture” but a costume presentation to the public with the Old Country for a theme. Not a chance they got even that small crowd to the Johnson House community center for 7 days in a row to actually celebrate Kwanzaa. It’s too boring, and any recent african immigrants wouldn’t have a clue what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/70 "2014-12-11T09:56:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As I said to my wife last Steak and Blowjob Day, _you just aren’t getting into the spirit of the thing!_ > > Regards, > Shodan And she said _you’re just not getting the concept of eating out_. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/71 "2014-12-11T12:25:55Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I dunno, monstro. 162 views…Christmas tree in the background… A Christmas tree does not negate a Kwanzaa celebration. My mother celebrates it, but as a Christian minister, she also celebrates Christmas. This conflict only exists in the minds of the unintiated. > [@](#): > > What you have there is not a “subculture” but a costume presentation to the public with the Old Country for a theme. Not a chance they got even that small crowd to the Johnson House community center for 7 days in a row to actually celebrate Kwanzaa. It’s too boring, and any recent african immigrants wouldn’t have a clue what’s going on. It actually is a subculture, one that I’m familiar with since my mother and all her friends belong to it. So please don’t try to educate me on something I know quite well, thanks. Do Jews gather around the menorah all eight nights of Hanukkah? Or do they light the candles nightly and MAYBE hold a family gathering at the beginning or the end? I’m not Jewish, so I have no idea how the holiday is celebrated. But I certainly wouldn’t use the absence of a continual festival to condemn it as a “fake” holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/72 "2014-12-11T14:03:42Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > And she said _you’re just not getting the concept of eating out_. Actually she explained the concept, and it worked out fine. Afterwards, we went to a restaurant for dinner. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/73 "2014-12-11T14:51:07Z")
> [@Chief Pedant](#): > > Kwanzaa is much too artificially constructed to get any real traction. LOL. Kwanzaa has been a thing since the late 60’s. For something that lacks “real traction”, you gotta wonder how its maintained such staying power. As long as people keep buying kinaras and cards for it, the holiday will continue to be publically recognized. It’s as simple as that. The inordinate amount of attention given to this minor cultural observance–principally by critics who keep declaring it irrelevant every year in spite of its continued existence–certainly doesn’t help Kwanzaa fade into obscurity. If you and others want the thing die (which is obvious), your best bet is to stop whining about it already. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/74 "2014-12-11T15:08:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How come only the white guys get the blowjobs? > > Regards, > Shodan White priviledge. 🙂 ETA: I used to celebrate Diwali and Christmas. That’s the beauty of living in this country - you can include all the holidays! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/75 "2014-12-11T15:32:16Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you do a search on Kwanzaa celebrations on youtube, you’ll find plenty of proof that it is a real thing. The linked-to video looks not at all like the real thing, it’s an edited, voice-overed promo featuring some performance artists who are basically trying to push the concept onto an audience that looks about as happy as they might if they were in a tax audit conducted by CIA torturers. It no more proves that Kwanzaa is a popularly celebrated holiday than the video of my 40-minute set at Comedy Bar proves I’m a famous comedian. I don’t really get the hostility towards Kwanzaa. It’s just another attempt at marketing through holidays. Hell, every May 4 we get people crowing about it being Star Wars Day, for God’s sake. How is this any worse? Any excuse to get together, have fun, and eat and drink is a good one. Will Kwanzaa last? Probably not, for the reasons Chief Pedant lists, but I guess you never know. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/76 "2014-12-11T16:47:14Z")
Several existing holidays that we celebrate were founded as marketing ploys. E.g. Valentine’s Day. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/77 "2014-12-12T00:18:41Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > LOL. Kwanzaa has been a thing since the late 60’s. For something that lacks “real traction”, you gotta wonder how its maintained such staying power. As long as people keep buying kinaras and cards for it, the holiday will continue to be publically recognized. It’s as simple as that. > > The inordinate amount of attention given to this minor cultural observance–principally by critics who keep declaring it irrelevant every year in spite of its continued existence–certainly doesn’t help Kwanzaa fade into obscurity. If you and others want the thing die (which is obvious), your best bet is to stop whining about it already. Why I myself have been known to send out a Kwanzaa card or three. It’s been a “thing” alright. Even with me. But it’s kind of a fake thing. More like a sense of obligation to throw a bone for the Cause. I agree with the “minor cultural observance” summary. But not, of course, the Culture that any new african immigrant would understand. Throw in a little white guilt. A little black nostalgia. A little effort at cultural diversity. A general theme of non-judgment. And a lotta Dr Karenga, who has been Kwanzaa Claus since Day 1. I would be stunned if anyone caught off guard (including Dr Karenga 😉 ) could recite the Kwanzaa liturgy. This despite the fact that no Kwanzaa article anywhere forgets to fluff out the piece with the K fundamentals. Functionally Kwanzaa is a community club costume presentation, just like the video posted above. Pretty shallow roots, I’d say. It will (has?) morphed into “thinking of africa” at Christmastime. But hey; go to the website and see where the Kwanzaa Karamus are for this year. Attend and then come back w/ photos to correct me. Or join the FB page and try to get them up to 3,000 Likes. Or pull up any Internet article and note the intense interest. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/78 "2014-12-12T01:00:53Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Throw in a little white guilt. A little black nostalgia. A little effort at cultural diversity. A general theme of non-judgment. And a lotta Dr Karenga, who has been Kwanzaa Claus since Day 1. The haters of Kwanzaa make a much bigger deal about Karenga than anyone else. I would think conservatives of all people would appreciate the principles of the holiday. > [@](#): > > Umoja (Unity): To strive for and to maintain unity in the family, community, nation, and race. The only controversial thing here is “race”. But there’s precedence. I know in my mind, the majority of Jewish holidays seem to commemorate the Jewish people overcoming oppression together. And we of course celebrate Irishness on St. Patrick’s day. > [@](#): > > Kujichagulia (Self-Determination): To define ourselves, name ourselves, create for ourselves, and speak for ourselves. Isn’t self-determination the very spirit of rugged individualism? Isn’t that as American as apple pie? > [@](#): > > Ujima (Collective Work and Responsibility): To build and maintain our community together and make our brothers’ and sisters’ problems our problems, and to solve them together. Seems to me conservatives are always blaming black people for not having enough ujima. > [@](#): > > Ujamaa (Cooperative Economics): To build and maintain our own stores, shops, and other businesses and to profit from them together. See above. > [@](#): > > Nia (Purpose): To make our collective vocation the building and developing of our community in order to restore our people to their traditional greatness. Again with the self-empowerment. How scandalous! > [@](#): > > Kuumba (Creativity): To do always as much as we can, in the way we can, in order to leave our community more beautiful and beneficial than we inherited it. Who knew Karenga was both artsy-fartsy AND racist! > [@](#): > > Imani (Faith): To believe with all our hearts in our people, our parents, our teachers, our leaders, and the righteousness and victory of our struggle. Sounds like something any church-going American should be able to get behind. Black folk can’t win. They had their cultures snatched away from them. Then they found themselves the laughing stocks of their new cultural milieu. Then they turned around and found the dominant culture appropriating from them even as they were STILL despised. Finally, fed up with the whole thing, some of them decided to reinvent themselves in a different way–a way that affirms and dignifies their identity and dreams. And the dominant culture _still_ can’t stop laughing and throwing spitballs. Of course pan-Africanism is “made up”. Maybe if all the laughing and demeaning and stigmitizing would stop, there would be no need for it. I know this much. Recent current events aren’t making young black folks exactly move away from things like Kwanzaa. Speaking for myself, the more racist comments I read on the internet, the more comforting it is being around Afrocentric ideas and people. I may just turn into my mother after all. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/79 "2014-12-12T01:57:19Z")
> [@Stuffy](#): > > Well at least it’s not February yet. Rape Month? > [@RickJay](#): > > Any excuse to get together, have fun, and eat and drink is a good one. Except I don’t think boozing it up is a Kwanzaa thing. The creators seem too earnest for that. Kinda doomed from the start, it was. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/80 "2014-12-12T02:16:15Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Rape Month? > Except I don’t think boozing it up is a Kwanzaa thing. The creators seem too earnest for that. Kinda doomed from the start, it was. There is the pouring of libation ceremony, though. At the last Kwanzaa party I attended (shit, that would have been more than 15 years ago), we drank some wine. And it was mighty fine wine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752.md?page=5)