# What's the deal with Kwanzaa **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752 "2014-12-09T12:39:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/101 "2014-12-12T17:35:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have never heard anyone say this to anyone.:dubious: Christmas is mostly a secular holiday, and you can celebrate it like Thanksgiving or Halloween or New Years. I have, unfortunately. Also: “Well, if you’re not Christian, why do you get a day off for Christmas?” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/102 "2014-12-12T17:43:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Did you happen to read the actual post? > I think it reflects badly on Kwanzaa. > > **monstro** claimed that the principles of Kwanzaa should appeal to conservatives. Instead, they appealed mostly to terrorist thugs, as I mentioned. > > Several others have mentioned that Kwanzaa is celebrated to irritate white people. Also a principle not calculated to appeal to conservatives. > > You could look it up! > > Regards, > Shodan Yes, I read the post. Why should it reflect badly on Kwanzaa? Just because one group puts out several principles, whether or not they abide by them, and that group is considered evil means that others can’t adopt the same principles without being stained by the other group? Suppose I want to start a terrorist group with the motto “Be Prepared”. Would that reflect poorly on the Boy Scouts? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/103 "2014-12-12T17:56:33Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I have, unfortunately. Also: “Well, if you’re not Christian, why do you get a day off for Christmas?” Ugh. This is the time of year where my Mom starts bitching about anyone who celebrates Christmas as a secular holiday. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/104 "2014-12-12T19:46:37Z")
Separate-but-equal bathrooms are considered a bad thing. Separate-but-equal lunch counters are considered a bad thing. Separate-but-equal schools are considered a bad thing. Why, then, is a separate-but-equal holiday considered a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/105 "2014-12-12T19:46:59Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Separate-but-equal bathrooms are considered a bad thing. > Separate-but-equal lunch counters are considered a bad thing. > Separate-but-equal schools are considered a bad thing. > > Why, then, is a separate-but-equal holiday considered a good thing? Whut? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/106 "2014-12-12T19:47:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Though, I have heard of people exchanging small handmade gifts in lieu … Let’s don’t get into a habit of that. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/107 "2014-12-12T20:01:31Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Separate-but-equal bathrooms are considered a bad thing. > > Separate-but-equal lunch counters are considered a bad thing. > > Separate-but-equal schools are considered a bad thing. > > Why, then, is a separate-but-equal holiday considered a good thing? So, uh, let’s pick a set of holidays to celebrate and stick with it. I’m kind of partial to Hindu holidays. What do you say? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/108 "2014-12-12T20:24:42Z")
Monstro, just wanted to say you win this thread, like usual. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/109 "2014-12-12T20:24:44Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > So, uh, let’s pick a set of holidays to celebrate and stick with it. I’m kind of partial to Hindu holidays. What do you say? I say let’s go one better. Let’s celebrate all of them. I am Hindu, am in a relationship with a man of Chinese descent and I live in a predominantly Christian country. Plus my sister in law is Jewish. I start my celebrations in October-November and celebrate Diwali. Then Thanksgiving. Then my birthday in November. Then Hanukah because my nephew and niece celebrate it. Then Christmas. Then New Year’s. Then Chinese New Year. My year is awesome! And I pick and choose exactly what I want out of every holiday, so even more fun! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/110 "2014-12-12T20:30:08Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Separate-but-equal bathrooms are considered a bad thing. > Separate-but-equal lunch counters are considered a bad thing. > Separate-but-equal schools are considered a bad thing. > > Why, then, is a separate-but-equal holiday considered a good thing? Uhm, let’s see… Because that last one is not enforced by law to be separate? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/111 "2014-12-12T20:30:47Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Monstro, just wanted to say you win this thread, like usual. _pours the libations over my head to symbolize my people’s victory over the ignorami_ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/112 "2014-12-12T20:52:02Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Separate-but-equal bathrooms are considered a bad thing. > Separate-but-equal lunch counters are considered a bad thing. > Separate-but-equal schools are considered a bad thing. > > Why, then, is a separate-but-equal holiday considered a good thing? Anyone can celebrate Kwanzaa. It’s not separate. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/113 "2014-12-12T21:02:22Z")
Anti-ignorami sounds like it should be the 8th principle of Kwanzaa. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/114 "2014-12-12T21:28:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Anyone can celebrate Kwanzaa. It’s not separate. Well sure; and anyone can celebrate Hanukkah or Diwali. But as an African American and pan-african holiday celebrated throughout the african community, Kwanzaa brings a cultural message which speaks to what it means to be african and human. Not (say) scandinavian and human. That’s fine (whether or not Kwanzaa itself is kind of lame), but it’s not very likely any non-african would “celebrate Kwanzaa” other than just to be polite. I see nothing wrong with any self-organized group having their own thing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/115 "2014-12-12T21:37:34Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Well sure; and anyone can celebrate Hanukkah or Diwali. > > But as an African American and pan-african holiday celebrated throughout the african community, Kwanzaa brings a cultural message which speaks to what it means to be african and human. Not (say) scandinavian and human. > > That’s fine (whether or not Kwanzaa itself is kind of lame), but it’s not very likely any non-african would “celebrate Kwanzaa” other than just to be polite. > > I see nothing wrong with any self-organized group having their own thing. I don’t see anything wrong with it. But this doesn’t mean it’s “separate” in any way, and practices vary widely enough (like for most holidays) that some others will consider it, and celebrate it, differently. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/116 "2014-12-12T21:51:02Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > Are you whooshing us? A \*hanukkiah \*(Hanukkah menorah) has 9 candles - one to represent each day plus one that’s lit first and used to light the others. A Kwanzaa _kinara_ has 7 candles, each of which represents a specific concept. I have heard that the guy who invented Kwanzaa admired how the Jews had their own holiday, and the imitation isn’t accidental. > [@elfkin477](#): > > I imagine that 98% of the cards are purchased by clueless, well-meaning white people and given to their bemused black friends. When my kids used to sell expensive wrapping paper to support the school, I always bought some of the Kwanzaa paper. Outside of the “holiday season” it looked like attractive, high-quality non-holiday wrapping paper. I would have felt weird wrapping birthday presents in Christmas or Hannukah paper, but the Kwanzaa paper became non-holiday paper. 🙂 > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Some people do. My idiot brother (as opposed to my non-idiot brother) totally buys into the notion that Easter is all about Frigg, and thus insists on calling it Resurrection Sunday. > > Admittedly my baby sister also calls Easter Resurrection Sunday, but she is not an idiot and I love her, so anyone who calls her an idiot is requesting a slap. lol. I have a friend who refers to “God is dead Saturday”. you know, the day after Jesus died, but before he was ressurected. > [@monstro](#): > > …Do Jews gather around the menorah all eight nights of Hanukkah? Or do they light the candles nightly and MAYBE hold a family gathering at the beginning or the end? I’m not Jewish, so I have no idea how the holiday is celebrated. But I certainly wouldn’t use the absence of a continual festival to condemn it as a “fake” holiday. We light candles at the start of supper, while saying a prayer. That’s pretty much all we do most of Hannukah, and we sometimes forget to do that. We also usually have one family meal where we all pig out on latkes (fried potato pancakes) once during the holiday, and maybe someone will pick up a box of donuts or other oily foods. But I kinda think Hannukah is a “fake” holiday, that gets a lot of press so the Jews have something to do while everyone else is off celebrating Christmas. The “real” Jewish holidays in most American Jewish households are Passover and the 10 days starting with Rosh Hashanah and ending with Yom Kippur. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/117 "2014-12-12T22:07:01Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > So, uh, let’s pick a set of holidays to celebrate and stick with it. I’m kind of partial to Hindu holidays. What do you say? I vote for [Songkran](http://www.thai-food-online.co.uk/images/songkran/songkran.jpg) because what part of having giant public street party water battles where you can squirt people with elephants is not completely awesome? Plus [this](http://images.smh.com.au/2012/04/16/3222509/th-Travel-Songkran-10_20120416105612992696-600x400.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/118 "2014-12-12T22:30:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have never heard anyone say this to anyone.:dubious: Christmas is mostly a secular holiday, and you can celebrate it like Thanksgiving or Halloween or New Years. I really hate when people say this. People may want Xmas to be secular to justify the fact that it dominates society this time of year, but I promise that to lots of us Jews even the “secular” parts of Christmas don’t feel secular. Nonreligious (cultural) Christians or for people of religions not so closely linked with Christianity may enjoy the secular aspects of Christmas and that’s great. But ultimately is a celebration of the a birth of Jesus and for many Jewish folks you can’t dissect that part away. It may be celebrated in a secular fashion, but it’s not like Thanksgiving which might have religious aspects added on, but is at it’s core, not a religious holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/119 "2014-12-12T22:56:37Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I vote for [Songkran](http://www.thai-food-online.co.uk/images/songkran/songkran.jpg) because what part of having giant public street party water battles where you can squirt people with elephants is not completely awesome? Plus [this](http://images.smh.com.au/2012/04/16/3222509/th-Travel-Songkran-10_20120416105612992696-600x400.jpg). I vote for this too. Giant wet t-shirt contests for all races. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/120 "2014-12-12T23:21:31Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I really hate when people say this. People may want Xmas to be secular to justify the fact that it dominates society this time of year, but I promise that to lots of us Jews even the “secular” parts of Christmas don’t feel secular. Nonreligious (cultural) Christians or for people of religions not so closely linked with Christianity may enjoy the secular aspects of Christmas and that’s great. But ultimately is a celebration of the a birth of Jesus and for many Jewish folks you can’t dissect that part away. > > It may be celebrated in a secular fashion, but it’s not like Thanksgiving which might have religious aspects added on, but is at it’s core, not a religious holiday. Yep. Frosty the Snowman. Rudolph the Reindeer. Santa Claus.😛 It actually isnt much a Christian Holiday, since Christians for centuries celebrated Easter, not Christmas. Altho the idea that the Christians picked Dec 25 to coincide with the many pagan holidays around then is 99% bogus- it is true that the _celebration_ of Christmas is mostly drawn from Pagan or Folklore sources. And quite a few Christian sects dont celebrate Christmas. So, I know many Jewish people dont consider Hanukkah much of a a religious festival- even tho there’s a small kernel of religion for which the day is selected. But the celebration is mostly secular, no? Dreidel, fried food, gelt- all traditional but with little or no religious significance. > **[Chanukah](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hannukah)** > > Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism. _Chanukah is probably one of the best known Jewish holidays, not because of any great religious significance, but because of its proximity to Christmas._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752.md?page=7)