# What's the deal with Kwanzaa **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752 "2014-12-09T12:39:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/121 "2014-12-12T23:25:02Z")
Kinda missed my entire point, but I’m not going to try again. Suffice it to say what you wrote isn’t really a response to what I’m saying. Sure, Christmas is secular. Let’s just make it a national holiday and be fine with it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/122 "2014-12-13T01:03:24Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > At the last Kwanzaa party I attended (shit, that would have been more than 15 years ago), we drank some wine. And it was mighty fine wine. Well, joy to the world! > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Lol at the idea Kwanzaa precludes booze because of “earnestness”. And yet we accept that people drink spiked eggnog on the birthday of the most earnest religious figure known to man. Earnest? Dude was a party _animal!_ (re: John 2:1-11) Made 180 gallons of wine for _one_ party, _after_ everything else was drunk. He’s the patron god of wedding receptions. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/123 "2014-12-13T01:14:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep. Frosty the Snowman. Rudolph the Reindeer. Santa Claus.😛 > > It actually isnt much a Christian Holiday, since Christians for centuries celebrated Easter, not Christmas. Altho the idea that the Christians picked Dec 25 to coincide with the many pagan holidays around then is 99% bogus- it is true that the _celebration_ of Christmas is mostly drawn from Pagan or Folklore sources. And quite a few Christian sects dont celebrate Christmas. > > So, I know many Jewish people dont consider Hanukkah much of a a religious festival- even tho there’s a small kernel of religion for which the day is selected. But the celebration is mostly secular, no? Dreidel, fried food, gelt- all traditional but with little or no religious significance. > > [Chanukah](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/holiday7.html) > _Chanukah is probably one of the best known Jewish holidays, not because of any great religious significance, but because of its proximity to Christmas._ Regarding Hanukkah, All Things Considered today had an [interview](http://www.npr.org/2014/12/12/370394985/hanukkahs-real-and-imagined-history) with Simon Schama. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/124 "2014-12-13T02:02:21Z")
My calendar shows me celebrating cinco de mayo, st Patrick’s day, and April 20th (hallowed be that date). I respect y’all others, please mirror that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/125 "2014-12-13T06:14:43Z")
I like Jon Stewart’s idea of calling December 25th Osama’s Homobortionpot’n’commiejizzporium. Has a nice ring to it. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/126 "2014-12-13T18:22:54Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I really hate when people say this. People may want Xmas to be secular to justify the fact that it dominates society this time of year, but I promise that to lots of us Jews even the “secular” parts of Christmas don’t feel secular. Nonreligious (cultural) Christians or for people of religions not so closely linked with Christianity may enjoy the secular aspects of Christmas and that’s great. But ultimately is a celebration of the a birth of Jesus and for many Jewish folks you can’t dissect that part away. > > It may be celebrated in a secular fashion, but it’s not like Thanksgiving which might have religious aspects added on, but is at it’s core, not a religious holiday. And yet for other Jews, it is celebrated in a secular way. I promise you will find no Jesus-y things or angels or any of that in my family’s household, but you will see our Christmas tree sitting next to a menorah. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/127 "2014-12-13T21:16:12Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My calendar shows me celebrating cinco de mayo, st Patrick’s day, and April 20th (hallowed be that date). I respect y’all others, please mirror that. I can’t believe you celebrate April 20th for the only reason that occurs to me. Please let me know why. Because, you know who else celebrated a holiday on April 20th? :eek: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/128 "2014-12-13T21:38:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because, you know who else celebrated a holiday on April 20th? George Takei and Clint Howard 🙂 Cite: > **[April 20](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_20)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > .mw-parser-output .calendar-purple{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:#ccf}.mw-parser-output .calendar-lightpurple{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:#d8e0ff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .calendar-purple{background-color:#2a2a5c}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .calendar-lightpurple{background-color:#202040}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-pa... ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/129 "2014-12-13T22:33:10Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > And yet for other Jews, it is celebrated in a secular way. I promise you will find no Jesus-y things or angels or any of that in my family’s household, but you will see our Christmas tree sitting next to a menorah. What I’m talking about is when Christians tell non-Christians that it’s no big deal when Christmas gets infused and forced into everything this time of year because Christmas is actually a secular national holiday. A non-Christian who chooses to embrace it? That’s your choice and certainly enjoy it. I get tired of the “it’s a secular holiday” trope used to minimize the frustration felt by many non-Christians. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/130 "2014-12-13T23:30:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It actually isnt much a Christian Holiday, since Christians for centuries celebrated Easter, not Christmas.\* The Christmas season might be largely secular, but Christmas day is a religious holiday, plain and simple. Christmas is on Thursday this year. Go to your local church next Thursday and compare the number of people worshiping there to Thursday the following week (Christmas day). ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/131 "2014-12-13T23:38:30Z")
Christmas Day is a secular occasion in actual practice for many of those who recognize it. It is a religious holiday for many others. Neither of these facts make the other less true. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/132 "2014-12-14T01:01:50Z")
The ridiculousness of Kwanzaa will be among the grievances I air during Festivus this year. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/133 "2014-12-14T04:00:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I can’t believe you celebrate April 20th for the only reason that occurs to me. Please let me know why. > > Because, you know who else celebrated a holiday on April 20th? > > :eek: > > Regards, > Shodan So do I take it that [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_%28cannabis_culture%29) significance of 420 did not occur to you? ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/134 "2014-12-14T06:57:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Suppose I want to start a terrorist group with the motto “Be Prepared”. Would that reflect poorly on the Boy Scouts? Nah, Simba already wiped out _that_ terrorist group. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/135 "2014-12-14T13:06:01Z")
**Shodan** , Lemmy got it in one. The seal is wise beyond his years. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/136 "2014-12-14T15:37:19Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > **Shodan** , Lemmy got it in one. The seal is wise beyond his years. Hey! Scroll down to the bottom of the page I linked! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/137 "2014-12-14T16:11:49Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Hey! Scroll down to the bottom of the page I linked! Excellent! _passes to the left_ ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/138 "2014-12-14T16:20:10Z")
> [@ricksummon](#): > > Nah, Simba already wiped out _that_ terrorist group. 😃 Har! I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![BaldDudePeekskill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@BaldDudePeekskill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaldDudePeekskill)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/139 "2014-12-15T12:40:14Z")
Lot of interesting posts,thank you . I guess my main point with Kwanzaa is not what it represents, which is pretty cool…it’s just the timing of it all… Plenty of holidays already happening near the solstice…so a concept that could be good gets lost in the shuffle. Sort of like what happens to people who have birthdays on Christmas day… ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752/140 "2014-12-15T16:49:28Z")
> [@BaldDudePeekskill](#): > > Lot of interesting posts,thank you . I guess my main point with Kwanzaa is not what it represents, which is pretty cool…it’s just the timing of it all… Plenty of holidays already happening near the solstice…so a concept that could be good gets lost in the shuffle. Sort of like what happens to people who have birthdays on Christmas day… Hmmm, when do you think it should be held? February? We could have everything all neat and contained. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-kwanzaa/706752.md?page=8)