# What's the deal with Mormon fundamentalist women's hair? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679 "2008-04-09T22:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/21 "2008-04-11T00:11:54Z")
Could it be also that just having the hair down is seen as too “hippie”? If the hair is worn down covering the ears and part of the face it’s reminiscent of the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/22 "2008-04-11T01:03:34Z")
My theory on these hairstyles, **Spectre** , is that a lot of these cults separated from mainstream Mormonism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, when similar hairstyles were in fashion, and they’ve since “fossilized” into their current form. That is, of course, entirely a wild ass guess, so don’t go quoting me. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/23 "2008-04-11T01:21:29Z")
IMS, traditionally, a woman only let her hair down for her husband ala Victorian times and (for all I know earlier). Hair cascading down the back is seen as sensual even to us non-cult non Mormon folk. Just think of the librarian or nurse or repressed spinster type in a movie taking her hair down. And also, doesn’t it say in the old testament somewhere that a woman is never to cut her hair or some such? Just some thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/24 "2008-04-11T02:26:43Z")
[QUOTE=Big\_Norse] I find it interesting (and indicative of the male domination of this sect) that unlike the Mennonite or Amish, the men don’t also wear styles that separate them from modern society (from what I’ve seen in pictures of Warren Jeffs). The women, however, are tagged by both their clothes and their hair. [/QUOTE] I think that idea has merit. I’ll bet it makes them easier to spot or catch when they try to bolt, too… ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/25 "2008-04-11T02:36:14Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] And also, doesn’t it say in the old testament somewhere that a woman is never to cut her hair or some such? [/QUOTE] No. It talks about men’s haircuts and beard trimming (Leviticus 19:27 "You shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shall you mar the corners of your beard’) but not women’s. There’s also the Nazarite, who can be male or female and doesn’t cut his or her hair (among other things), but that’s a voluntary vow, and their rules don’t apply to others. Maybe the NT? ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/26 "2008-04-11T03:19:43Z")
It’s in 1 Corinthians, in [Chapter 11](http://www.newadvent.org/bible/1co011.htm), which talks about modesty for women and woman’s relationship with man. (That link goes to the Catholic Bible, but all the King James versions I could find online led to ugly sites.) Leave it to Paul to muck up women’s lives centuries after the fact. > [@1 Cor 11:15](#): > > But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. ---
**Author:** ![Tabula\_Rasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@Tabula\_Rasa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabula_Rasa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/27 "2008-04-11T04:30:36Z")
[QUOTE=Miss Purl McKnittington] My theory on these hairstyles, **Spectre** , is that a lot of these cults separated from mainstream Mormonism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, when similar hairstyles were in fashion, and they’ve since “fossilized” into their current form. That is, of course, entirely a wild ass guess, so don’t go quoting me. [/QUOTE] Oops, I just quoted you. But only for purposes of conversation. The FLDS broke away from the main stream of LDS in the 1930s. They did, however, have a sort of aesthetic theme, as the “true Mormons,” of reverting to the pioneer origins of the LDS. Hence (if anything about this group can be summed up in a “hence”), the pioneer-wear and the odd Hollywood Westerns (Dances with Wolves, excepted) hair. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/28 "2008-04-11T04:31:22Z")
Can someone 'splain a ‘rat’ and a ‘pincurl’ for me? I Googled but the sites I found didn’t really seem to explain so much as refer to them. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/29 "2008-04-11T04:36:11Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Can someone 'splain a ‘rat’ and a ‘pincurl’ for me? I Googled but the sites I found didn’t really seem to explain so much as refer to them. [/QUOTE] A rat is a sort of oval form, made out of either wool or a person’s collected “fall out” hair, that serves as a bit of a cushion or pad for a hair-do. You can wind hair around it for a bun, for example, and it would be a poofier bun than you’d have if you just rolled the hair on itself. Pincurling is a way of setting hair into ringlets. You wind damp hair into a little ring, then secure it with a bobby pin or hair clip until it dries, then finger-comb it out. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/30 "2008-04-11T05:54:13Z")
10-Q so much 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/31 "2008-04-11T10:12:45Z")
[QUOTE=Miss Purl McKnittington] It’s in 1 Corinthians, in [Chapter 11](http://www.newadvent.org/bible/1co011.htm), which talks about modesty for women and woman’s relationship with man. (That link goes to the Catholic Bible, but all the King James versions I could find online led to ugly sites.) Leave it to Paul to muck up women’s lives centuries after the fact. [/QUOTE] Would you mind if I nitpick a little? There is no “Catholic Bible”. Catholics, Episcopalians, and, I think, some other denominations include the Apocrypha, but that’s the only difference I know of. If you want a good reference site for Bible passages, I recommend [Bible Gateway](http://www.biblegateway.com/) which not only lets you look up passages, but gives you side-by-side comparisons. Here’s a longer version of the section in 1 Corinthians 11: > [@](#): > > 3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,\*\* since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. > > 11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God. If anyone’s interested in the King James Version of this passage, you can find it [here.](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2011;&version=9;) The only other references I could find to women and hair were a passage in Numbers 5 which covers what to do if a woman comits adultery and the passage in Luke 7 where a woman wipes Jesus’ feet with her hair. One thing I’ve noticed about the news coverage of the FLDS situation in Texas is that, while little girls are all wearing long dresses with long hair, at least some of the little boys are wearing modern clothes and look like they’d be hard to distinguish from any other boy their age. I’m assuming they do this to make it clear to the girls and women that they are set apart and different from the broader world. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/32 "2008-04-11T12:38:05Z")
Some fundamentalist Christian groups believe a women’s hair is her “crowning glory” and should not be cut. Have you ever seen a photo of [Shirley Phelps Roper](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,217975,00.html)? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/33 "2008-04-11T14:42:56Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Since they’re not allowed to do much else except have sex, I’m sure most of them get pretty skilled at hair braiding. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure they’re allowed to do other stuff like cooking, cleaning, childcare, clothesmaking, beekeeping, manual labor, etc. If you watch **Big Love** you’ll notice that the compound women seem to have alot of rather masculine skills like welding and working on cars. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/34 "2008-04-11T16:41:08Z")
[QUOTE=Siege] One thing I’ve noticed about the news coverage of the FLDS situation in Texas is that, while little girls are all wearing long dresses with long hair, at least some of the little boys are wearing modern clothes and look like they’d be hard to distinguish from any other boy their age. I’m assuming they do this to make it clear to the girls and women that they are set apart and different from the broader world. [/QUOTE] Hmm…that seems to be a general trend for hardcore fundamentalist Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Tabula\_Rasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@Tabula\_Rasa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabula_Rasa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/35 "2008-04-11T18:09:04Z")
[QUOTE=Siege] One thing I’ve noticed about the news coverage of the FLDS situation in Texas is that, while little girls are all wearing long dresses with long hair, at least some of the little boys are wearing modern clothes and look like they’d be hard to distinguish from any other boy their age. I’m assuming they do this to make it clear to the girls and women that they are set apart and different from the broader world. [/QUOTE] The FLDS men and boys are required to wear long sleeves and long pants. Women are not allowed to wear the color red, but I’m not sure about the men and boys. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/36 "2008-04-11T18:19:05Z")
I found this comment re their garb by someone who now oversees their care to be darkly comical: “They huddled together. It was very obvious they were scared. They were non-responsive. They looked like deer caught in the headlights,” said church leader Helen Pfluger, 59. She estimates she spent at least 30 hours with the women and children over the weekend but said communications never rose above the most basic level. “I felt like I was from Mars, that I was alien to them. There was not one thing we had alike, except that we were female and had children,” she said. Pfluger said the children dressed in 19th-century garb, did not know what crayons or breakfast cereal were, and that they were not accustomed to some of the food they were offered. “Our food made some of the children sick. They are used to drinking raw milk and they asked for it,” she said. **"When they had clothing needs, it was impossible to give them what they needed. Where are you going to find a long-sleeve, high-neck, loose-waist, long dress for a 3-year old girl?" she asked** ---
**Author:** ![Ro\_Carter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7feea3/32.png) [@Ro\_Carter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ro_Carter)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/37 "2008-04-11T20:44:04Z")
This may be a slight highjack, but is somewhat relevant to the discussion around the bible quotes. > [@](#): > > 3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,\*\* since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. You know, this is really odd. When I was younger I used to do some Bible Quizzing. (Quick background: teams of middle/high school kids are given a specific book, or set of books from the bible that they will be quizzed over for the rest of the year. It’s set up basically like a baseball/football league, in that you travel to different churches during the year, and then go to a big national tournament at the end. There are general questions, but some specific verses are marked as “quote verses” which are to be memorized and quoted back word perfect in the allotted 20 seconds.) Anyways. One year we covered 1 & 2 Corinthians. I actually remember parts of the above quoted section clearly. Matter of fact, I remember them so clearly that I am pretty sure they must have been quote verses. However, I am almost certain that all the verses that refer to women and their hair were NOT there. With some variance of wording allowed for different translations, the content I remember would have contained verses 3, 4, 7, 8 and 9. Maybe I’m imagining things, as it was several years ago. But I could swear up and down that those verses were just plain not there. ---
**Author:** ![Tabula\_Rasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@Tabula\_Rasa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabula_Rasa)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/38 "2008-04-13T14:59:41Z")
This is a great article about the hair and dress of the FLDS: [http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci\_8908641](http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_8908641) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679/39 "2008-04-13T20:18:22Z")
[QUOTE=Big\_Norse] I find it interesting (and indicative of the male domination of this sect) that unlike the Mennonite or Amish, the men don’t also wear styles that separate them from modern society (from what I’ve seen in pictures of Warren Jeffs). The women, however, are tagged by both their clothes and their hair. [/QUOTE] True, but there’s also the fact that male fashion has tended toward an unflattering bagginess, and what I think is excessive modesty in things like the fit of jeans and the length of shorts and trunks. If this incident were taking place thirty years ago, you’d probably see more marked differences in how the men dressed in the sect, versus outsiders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-mormon-fundamentalist-womens-hair/444679.md?page=1)