# What's the deal with 'rich' accents in old movies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 14, 2000, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307 "2000-08-14T16:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/1 "2000-08-14T16:02:01Z")
Ever noticed in old (oh, say, pre-1950) movies that rich folks used some “modified” British accent, even though they were Merkin? What’s up with that? Is this analagous to the “decent folk” in Shakespeare’s plays speaking in iambic pentameter, and the lower classes using prose? ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/2 "2000-08-14T16:07:17Z")
This is just a WAG, but could be traced all the “best schools” having British (or Europe-educated) headmasters/headmistresses? When you send the little darlings to Exeter and Choate, by gum you expect them to pick up the same Old World polish you did when you went there, hup, harumph. That seems a little thin, I guess. But surely it contributed to the perpetuation of the accent? ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/3 "2000-08-14T16:09:11Z")
early in this century, a phonetic shift started on the east coast. The vogue thing of the day was a dropping of terminal r’s. Pronouncing these r’s was considered a sign of low class. Philadelphia was a staunch bastion, I believe the only major metropolis on the eastern seaboard, of the terminal r. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/4 "2000-08-14T16:13:33Z")
Well, you MIGHT be referring to “Locust Valley Lockjaw,” or “Main Line Malocclusion.” That’s the Society Dowager voice best-known from Thurston Howell, III, or Jane Hathaway from “Beverly Hillbillies.” Katharine Hepburn (born in Connecticut, educated at Bryn Mawr) also had a variation of that voice. . . . As, indeed, does your Faithful Correspondent . . . ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/5 "2000-08-14T17:58:04Z")
I just knew it, **Eve**. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/6 "2000-08-14T18:00:37Z")
Is this the same accent affected by D.O.S. as Charles Emerson Winchester, III? Or is that just a plain ol’ Boston accent? Just trying to see where his fits along the New England accent spectrum. (I can tell you all the nuances of Louisiana accents, but know nothing about dem Yanks.) ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/7 "2000-08-14T18:13:16Z")
I’m sorry, but I’m losing the ‘Merkin’ reference. The last time I checked, a merkin was fake pubic hair a topless dancer wore to fool the crowd into thinking she was nude. Is there a different meaning on the SDMB? Am I just clueless? Wait, don’t answer that. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/8 "2000-08-14T18:21:27Z")
Okay, I did a search and found the reference. American = Merkin (capitalized, I assume for differentiation between the wig type) How very droll. I finally have something I can post on poogas21’s ‘Incredibly Annoying Thred’ Asshole inside jokes. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/9 "2000-08-14T18:22:23Z")
“Merkin” = “American” as pronounced by the lowest of classes. Like me. I’ve lived in Boston an aggregate seventeen years and I STILL don’t sound like Charles Emerson Winchester. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/10 "2000-08-14T19:08:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danalan \* > \*\* > I finally have something I can post on poogas21’s ‘Incredibly Annoying Thred’ > > Asshole inside jokes. \*\* Actually, if you do a search of Cecil’s columns, you’ll find that YOUR definition is the actual “inside joke.” It’s Mjollnir who dropped the ball – and with 2000+ posts! FOR SHAME!!! (Mjollnir - I think the term you’re looking for is: 'murrakin. You might want to check with Jeff Foxworthy though!) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/11 "2000-08-14T19:11:41Z")
Charles Emerson Winchester the Third? Naah. The ultimate “rich” accent was Tony Curtis as “Junior” in _Some Like it Hot_. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/12 "2000-08-14T19:18:43Z")
Green, you mean his Cary Grant imitation? Cary was originally a Cockney roustabout—he’d be happy to know he has succeeded in overoming his roots! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/13 "2000-08-14T19:27:21Z")
**Perfectly Enormous Hijack** Well, I know what **Green Bean** means…nothing like the ol’ “Cary Grant Voice” if you want to look suave and sophisticated and rolling in dough. The question is, do we think that when we hear the “Cary Grant Voice” because of what we think of Cary Grant, or was Cary Grant trying to project “wealthy and classy” by taking elocution lessons? (The “Cary Grant Voice” certainly isn’t that of a Cockney roustabout.) Let me try that again. Is the “Cary Grant Voice” classy because of Cary Grant, or is Cary Grant classy because he talked that way? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/14 "2000-08-14T19:55:56Z")
What we have to find out is, who was Cary Grant’s voice coach? THAT’S the old bean with the classy accent! ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/15 "2000-08-14T20:02:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jb\_farley \* > \*\*early in this century, a phonetic shift started on the east coast. The vogue thing of the day was a dropping of terminal r’s. Pronouncing these r’s was considered a sign of low class. Philadelphia was a staunch bastion, I believe the only major metropolis on the eastern seaboard, of the terminal r. \*\* jb’s timing seems pretty close: in the few existing recordings of Teddy Roosevelt you can clearly hear the “r,” but by FDR’s time the r, which had been burred like a Scotsman’s only a few generations before, is pushed off the soft pallette and back down into the glottis, as well as the already broad “a” being boadened even more. On the other end of the social spectrum, poor New Norkers don’t speak like they did in '30’s movies anymore either. Toidy-toid street is now Thoity Thoid, and the return of the “r” to the proletariat can not be long in coming, either. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2000, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/16 "2000-08-14T21:18:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Charles Emerson Winchester the Third? Naah. The ultimate “rich” accent was Tony Curtis as > “Junior” in _Some Like it Hot._ And remember Jack Lemmon’s comment? “And where did you get that ridiculous accent? [imitating Curtis’ accent] Nobody Talks Like That!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/17 "2000-08-15T16:48:42Z")
About the “Cary Grant voice”… Most actors and actresses of his time were trained at the RADA (Royal Acting and Drama Academy (have I got it the right way around?)) in London. In fact, many British actors/resses still are, but in Grant’s time, RADA trained everyone to speak in Received Pronunciation (RP), or what the British upper class considered to be “correct speech.” For an example of what I’m referring to, watch a British film from the '30’s or '40’s like _Brief Encounter_ in which all the major speaking parts are in RP. Keep in mind that RADA, being a “proper” dramatic society, was mainly concerned with teaching for the theatre, especially for Shakespeare’s works, and didn’t really expect its graduates to do anything as “working class” as films. Hence Cary Grant’s “upper class” voice. I agree with **Ukelele Ike** that it’s much more it’s much more effective at “pulling” than, say, Dick van Dyke’s “mockney” accent. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-rich-accents-in-old-movies/29307/18 "2000-08-15T16:49:55Z")
Um, sorry, I did mean to specify _British_ actors and actresses.