For one thing Jesus never spoke in tongues…and if you read in the bible in Corinthians is says it was a sign to the unbelieving Jews that the message the apostles were giving was authentic and from God. Today it is supposed to be some thing to get you closer to God or something but if you compare with what scripture dictates about speaking in tongues it isn’t being used properly and I have noticed that it isn’t a language that they speak it is some kind of gibberish when in scripture it is definately a language. The speaking in tongues first shows it’s self in Genesis during the time of babylon. So check it out…
The following verses from 1 Corinthians chapter 14 are usually “forgotten” by modern day proponents of speaking in tongues:
Paul makes it clear several times in this cahpter that, while speaking in tongues is a valid spiritual gift, if there is no one to interpret those words then it amounts to nothing more than rambling. In verse 9 Paul says:
IOW, if there is no interpreter, you’re just wasting you breath and everyone else’s time. This, to me, is a ringing indictment of what passes for speaking in tongues today. I rank most “speakers-in-tongue” right up there with those who pray for their own edification or make their giving habits public knowledge.
PD (phantomdiver) speaks in tongues on occasion. I’ve emailed her and asked her to post here.
In the mean time . . . boy is this opening a rather large can of worms, and hopefully we have enough fishers (obligatory joke: of men) to handle them.
On my other MB there was recently (and still is, I think) a discussion about speaking in tongues. Here’s the start of one thread (paddy is tired and his head and eyelids feel heavy, so you get to search for more on your own): http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=14180465
Make sure it’s threaded so you stay in the same thread (the one about tongues). There’s some strange stuff going on in the other ones.
It seems like any answer to this question will be based on conjecture and opinion with what is currently known. My own idea behind glossolalia is that it’s a product of the hypnagogic state usually experienced by folks as a state between waking and sleep. This state can be experienced at times other then when one is falling asleep through the use of various meditation techniques. Deep meditative states can be reached pretty easily within a crowd focused on spiritual or religious release. Common hypnagogic experiences include visions and auditory monologues or dialogues. SDStaff member Doug talks here about astral projection, which is another experience often considered spiritual or religious in nature. I think that speaking in tongues is quite possibly another manifestation of this state between the conscious and unconscious mind. As far as the speech being of a pattern which suggests a legitimate language, I doubt wheteher it’s a language which has ever been used within a society, but rather is an audible recitation of the underlying patterns upon which language is based.
Again, this is simply ideas I have about the phenomenon, and I could very well be wrong.
Thought I’d drop my $.02 into the offering plate.
I was raised like BunnyGirl and spoke in tongues with the same understanding that it was a gift from God that allows you to worship Him in a way you can not understand. When I spoke in tongues I think it was more of a mimicking of what others said than a devine act. I agree with rastahomie because I think I was motivated by peerpressure more than anything else. I wanted to be holy, on-fire, whathaveyou enough.
That being said, I no longer profess to be a Christian and do not practice Christianity. But I think if I wanted to I could still “speak in tongues.” But because I don’t like to mock other’s beliefs I’ll refrain.
Interesting thread, there. I loved this quote:
“It’s a real language. I know because I’ve heard some guy interpret it.”
Errr . . . forgive me for pointing this out, but unless the speaker also understands it, or two different people give the same interpretation, the “interpreter” can say whatever he wants, and nobody is the wiser.
This thread has the potential to be a million-post extravaganza of everyone who has ever encountered the phenomenon, whether they believe it to be a “language” or not.
Please confine further responses to a) scientific examination of speaking in tongues and b) Biblical citations as to its supposed origins (isn’t there a reference in Mark?).
Then I’ll shoot it over to Great Debates. 
When I was sixteen, I had never been exposed to speaking in tounges, other than passing references to “holy rollers” before I went to church with a friend of mine one Sunday.
This was an Apolostolic church, a term that I was not familiar with, and I was totally unprepared for the rolling, screaming, chanting, etc. that broke out about halfway through the service. I was terrified! I didn’t know what was going on, and burst into quiet tears of fright and confusion. A sweaty, covulsing woman who had been shrieking in apparent orgasmic ecstasy a moment earlier spied me and my teary face from across the church and bellowed, “Praise JESUS! She’s gettin’ the Holy Ghost!” and ran over to me. Almost instantly I was surrounded by praying, chanting, babbling people who were laying their hands on any part of me they could reach. One enthusiasticly kept whapping me on the head as if to force the Holy Ghost to present himself. I kept sobbing, “No! I’m NOT getting the Holy Ghost! I’m not! I’m just scared!”
Up at the pulpit the preacher was litterally frothing at the mouth, shouting, again and again “And the Bible tells us, ‘How do ye KNOW that ye are saved? and they answered him, only by the evidence of the speaking in tounges.’”
I’m not a religious person, per se, but I have read the Bible in its entirety and am very familiar with its contents. I leaned over to my friend and whispered, “That’s not in the Bible.”
She GLARED at me, and said in a how-dare-you voice, “Well, of COURSE it is!”
“Show me,” I replied, and shoved the Bible at her. She couldn’t find it, of course, and neither could the pastor, when they dragged me up to the altar towards the end of the service. (And when I say “dragged” I do mean DRAGGED. They were determined to “save” me, whether I liked it or not, and told me again and again that unless I could be slain in the spirit as they were that I was damned, and to just try a little harder.) When the pastor could not find the “scripture” that he had been using in services for over a decade, he just shrugged it off, said that it was in there, and a little Bible searching wouldn’t hurt ME in the least, and I ought to look for it.
Being the possessor of an electronic Bible, I attempted to show my friend the next day that the “scripture” was no where to be found, neither by word or by phrase. She refused to believe me, saying that the electronic Bible must be wrong. Even after she searched endlessly though a King James Bible and found nothing, she would not believe that it wasn’t in the Bible, insisting that she just couldn’t find it, because she had heard this “scripture” from early childhood on in every service she had attended.
What amazed me was that the pastor had been using this “scripture” for over fifteen years to prove his points, and yet no one in all of that time that it was trumpeted in the church had ever bothered to LOOK to see if it was actually in the Bible. They totally took his word for it.
I’m only familiar with the doctrine of UPC (United Pentecostal Church) Pentecostals churches. They believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of the Holy Ghost. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it said that tongues was proof that you were saved.
Acts 2:3-4 “And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Peter was speaking to the Jews outside the room where the Apostles were gathered. They’d heard the everyone praising God in other tongues and thought they were drunk. Peter told them they were not and told them that the prophesies of Joel had come true (God would pour out his spirit).
Acts 2:21 “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Acts 2:37 “Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of apostles, Men and brethern, what shall we do?”
I suppose the intrepretation of this could be “what shall we do to be saved?” I’m not a bible scholar so that’s just my guess.
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:44-46 “While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which beleived were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God…”
I’m not sure if that helps any. I think that’s why some people believe that speaking in tongues is proof that you’re saved.
I quoted so much scripture that I neglected to put my own thoughts in there.
I was raised in the Pentecostal church and while I believe in God, I really don’t believe every doctrine that is taught. UPC churches believe that women shouldn’t wear pants, make-up, or jewelry. I’m sure you’ve seen UPC women in your town. I seriously doubt that my outward appearance is going to keep me out of Heaven.
I also don’t believe that God is going to require a 15-point checklist for salvation. I don’t think speaking in tongues is on that checklist. I was taught that it was a gift given to anyone who wanted it. I can’t imagine that a gift would be something that would be requirement for being saved.
Speaking in tongues is supposed to be evidence of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is supposed to be the final step in salvation. Repentance, baptism, recieving the Holy Ghost. Dying (leaving your sins behind you and leaving sinful life behind), being buryed (with Christ washing away all your sins), and reborn (as a new person keeping Gods commandments and leading a holy life). I don’t know about mutes or otherwise verbally challenged people, but I am sure God would make allowances for them.
I was a big skeptic. Now I speak in tongues. Not at will either, though I have seen others that seem to be able to do that. I have heard people that sound like they are speaking an actual language while others sound as if they are just wiggling their tongues around in their mouths. It is a real experience that I have no control over. My pastor is from Brazil and has told of a couple of times when people started speaking English. I have no reason to doubt him now that I have experienced it first hand. At the time though I was sure he was a big phoney.
As iampunha posted, here’s a cite to a thread where a bunch of Christians discuss this issue:
http://boards.fool.com/Messages.asp?bid=113036&mid=14180465
My main post in this thread is the second one.
I speak in tongues on occasion. If anybody has specific questions, wanna shoot them at me? I’m getting over a stomach/fever bug, so I don’t want to type for very long just now, but I’ll post what I can. I reserve the right to skip questions that sound antagonistic. No offense meant; I just don’t feel like lending my body fat to flames.
Whatever I say will leave some unconvinced, and that’s fine with me. I can’t prove anything, and that’s fine with me. Speaking in tongues is absolutely not essential to my faith.
(Hi, Paddy! ::waving at her firstborn:
phantomdiver, I don’t think anyone doubts that speaking in tongues really occurs. Of course it does. The divide comes between those who believe that it is a gift from a deity, and those who believe that it is a psycholinguistic phenomenon generated from within. Not that both explanations can’t be true at the same time; I, however, tend towards the latter. And the fact that it can be displayed by the religious and the nonreligious alike lends even more credence to the latter.
Here are links to a couple of abstracts at Medline concerning glossolalia:
http://www3.infotrieve.com/medline/infotrieve/detail.asp?med9799+220069+"(glossolalia)"
http://www3.infotrieve.com/medline/infotrieve/detail.asp?med9093+1462862+"(glossolalia)"
An article at a Bible study site examining the (over)emphasis on tongues at many Pentecostal churches:
http://bible411.com/glossolalia/
An essay from a First Amendment studies site concerning real linguistic examination of glossolalia:
The link below provides a different viewpoint. Please scroll down to the “Mind Control” section.
Cults? Mind Control?
Well, that’ll get a thread sent to GD. Off it goes.
Sorry, but that really is the answer. Glossolalia is just a symptom of religious ecstasy, just like folks being “possessed” by the loa at a Vodun ceremony. It has zero basis in Scripture as it is currently practiced. When the apostles started speaking in tongues in Acts 2, they were speaking in known languages. Now if a Pentacostal started praising Jesus in fluent Xhosa (with a Xhosa interpreter nearby, of course), and if she had no previous knowledge of the language, then I’d have to acknowledge the presence of the Holy Spirit. What happens nowadays when folks “speak in tongues” is really just an hysterical form of baby talk. Besides, the proper response to some yahoo (in the Swiftian sense) who insists that you have to be “slain in the spirit” to be saved (yet another non-Scriptural position) is to point him to I Corinthians 13:1-“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, if I have not charity, I am as a tinkling brass or a clanging cymbal.”
John Ashcroft is a devout member of the Assembly of God denomination, one of the leading Pentecostal groups.
I recall seeing a comment that “Politicians usually speak in unintelligible gibberish; at least this one’s doing it on purpose!”
I had some experience with the Charismatic Renewal Movement in the Episcopal Church, and would be glad to answer any questions on that aspect of things as well.
P.S.: This has got to be one of the points with the greatest potential for hostility that I know of: an activity engaged in as a matter of faith by some Christians that bears every resemblance to a semi-psychotic act. Can I commend everyone who posted here for a balanced and honest group of responses? I’m so proud to be a part of a group that can tackle a question like this with that sort of result!
Sunspace wrote:
[nitpick]
Zamenhof[f] only translated the Old Testament into Esperanto. The New Testament was translated into Esperanto by a different group.
[/nitpick]
Incidentally, a decade ago I heard about an effort to translate the Bible into Klingon. Did they ever finish?
For years, i heard about speaking in tongues, but never really understood it (i think you must HEAR it to get it). For the dopers that haven’t had the chance, listen to the end of the song ‘Version’ by Incubus (not sure if the downloaded song has the tongue part or not…it’s on their second cd, ‘Enjoy Incubus’). Basically, somebody approaches the Brandon Boyd of Incubus, witnesses, speaks in tongues a couple times (same thing repeated twice) and challenges Boyd to do the same. Boyd does (he’s not religious) and the fundie is left sputtering something about demonic tongues. Funny, really.
Chris
P.S. (sorry if this sounds like spam for my favorite band. I do love Incubus, but i know it’s hard, or at least was for me, to comprehend the whole tongues thing without hearing it.)
There are people in this space-time continuum who clearly have too much time on their hands, and I wish there were a way they could somehow sell me their surplus hours.
No really, I think it’s important that the Bible be translated into Klingon, so that a fictitious race of creatures won’t be denied the opportunity for salvation.
[/hijack]
I’m an agnostic on tongues. Early in my Christian walk, I fellowshipped with any number of different groups, including several Pentecostal or charismatic groups. I know that my instances of supposed glossolalia were indeed ‘faking it’ brought about by peer expectations. OTOH, a friend of mine who probably considers herself Christian in only the loosest sense of the word still considers her experience with tongues during that time, which I was present at, to be genuine. I honestly can’t say, but it was certainly impressive at the time.
IMO, 1 Cor. 14:4-5 gives a place for tongues without interpretation in the common worship; Paul just makes clear that it’s a lesser place.
The line that I’ve heard repeatedly is that the ‘gifts of the Spirit’ were intended for the Apostolic generation only, and ended when the Apostles died out. I can’t recall whether Scriptural support was produced for this line of reasoning.
Nowadays, I have no idea whether the phenomenon is truly God-inspired, or whether it’s a purely psycholinguistic experience. All I know is that I feel absolutely no call to explore that phenomenon again. It’s not an answer to questions my heart has.