# What's the deal with stealing signs **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 13, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302 "2010-05-13T15:38:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/1 "2010-05-13T15:38:13Z")
So for the 3rd time in as many weeks, I read a story about baseball and it’s many unwritten rules. Apparently someone on the Phillies was [caught with binoculars](http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Rockies-thrust-Phillies-into-a-new-controversy-o?urn=mlb,240521) in the dugout and the other team is pissed. That would have been the extent of my interest if that was the only part of the story. But then the article says: > [@](#): > > Tracy Ringolsby of Fox Sports first broke this story on Wednesday morning, and reports that Major League Baseball has issued a warning to the Phillies, but that the league can’t say for certain that Billmeyer and Victorino were talking about something more nefarious than their theories on the final season of “LOST” or what nightspot they’d hit in LoDo after the game. > > From Fox Sports: > > \*\* "We have looked at the video and talked to the Phillies about the actions of their bullpen coach,‘’ a Major League Baseball official told [FOXSports.com](http://FOXSports.com). > > ``` > "We found the evidence inconclusive on what was being done, but we have spoken to the Phillies about the situation, and the umpires have been told to be on full alert as to what is going on.''** > > ``` They got a warning from MLB? For an unwritten rule? As a non-baseball watcher, I know at least that baseball has a long history and has a lot of stuff that players do that isn’t in the rulebooks. Another [recent article](http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/The-Code-Ten-unwritten-baseball-rules-you-mig?urn=mlb,238853) I read listed some of them, and I can understand most of it. #1 and #2 is about showing up your opponents and is similar to not running up the score when you have a big lead in other sports. Others are about different aspects of sportsmanship. #5 is what A-Rod got in trouble with; it’s a social nicety that doesn’t really make sense, but doesn’t hurt either and has a long tradition. I get that But stealing signs? I’ve never understood that rule. Signs are out in the open and anyone on TV can see it. It’s not a social nicety, it doesn’t affect sportsmanship, and it can determine the outcome of a game. Is it simply that I haven’t been around baseball long enough for it to affect me? It seems to me that everyone should steal signs. And it bothers me that I find out MLB apparently issued an official warning for an unwritten and thus unofficial rule! ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/2 "2010-05-13T15:43:14Z")
The unwritten rule is “steal away, but don’t get caught stealing, and don’t use technology to do so”. I think, but am not positive, that the rules actively ban using technology (from video cameras to binoculars) to help do so. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/3 "2010-05-13T15:54:27Z")
Yeah - there’s an actual written rule about using technology to steal signs. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/4 "2010-05-13T16:33:59Z")
That’s so odd… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/5 "2010-05-13T16:36:37Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > But stealing signs? I’ve never understood that rule. Signs are out in the open and anyone on TV can see it. It’s not a social nicety, it doesn’t affect sportsmanship, and it can determine the outcome of a game. Is it simply that I haven’t been around baseball long enough for it to affect me? It seems to me that everyone should steal signs. And it bothers me that I find out MLB apparently issued an official warning for an unwritten and thus unofficial rule! Signs from the catcher to the pitcher are not “out in the open.” The catcher keeps his hand tucked between his legs for a reason. Yes, anyone watching TV can see them, but only because we have the benefit of a massively powerful camera to home in on the catcher’s hand. And i think it does affect sportsmanship. It’s one thing for a runner on second base to use his own eyes to steal signs and quickly pass the information to the hitter by touching his helmet or shifting his feet, but it’s quite something else for a coach to look at the signs using powerful binoculars and then convey that information to the dugout. Stealing signs is part of the game (although if you get caught, you’ll probably get a fastball in the ribs during your next plate appearance), but it should be done only by the players involved in the game, not by third parties. And, as the others have noted, MLB specifically told clubs back in 2001 that the use of technology to steal signs was prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/6 "2010-05-14T02:31:53Z")
Where is Arlen Specter and his outrage for this? Two days before Superbowl 42 he decides to steal the thunder from the game and publicly suggest that Congress should hold hearings about the Patriots stealing signals. Why? Because he’s still butthurt that Donovan McNabb puked away the Eagles chances to finally win a championship for Philadelphia. (Specter is a Senator from Pennsylvania.) So Arlen wants the Patriots/Eagles Superbowl looked into for potential wrongdoing, and for good measure he wants all the Steelers AFC Championship chokejobs against the Patriots looked into as well. On the morning of Superbowl 42, Mike Golic rightfully pointed out to him that stealing signals is a part of sports (that’s why coaches cover their mouths when they call plays) and the Senate has better things to worry about, Specter likened stealing signals to stealing cars. Yes, he literally made that comparison. So now it’s your precious Phillies caught doing exactly what the Patriots did. Stealing signs has always been legal in the NFL; their only offense was a technicality, just like the Phillies. So where’s the outrage, you raging cunt? Fuck Arlen Specter. I hold him in the same kind of contempt I hold lawyers who mount frivolous lawsuits. But Specter was far worse, wasting the time of government during a time of war and imminent financial collapse. Even worse, he didn’t do it because of a stupid sense of honor, but because of blatant homerism. Again, fuck him. For that matter, where’s the SDMB outrage? This is exactly the same thing the Patriots got busted for, so if your outrage at the Pats doesn’t exactly match your outrage at the Phillies, you are a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/7 "2010-05-15T18:16:26Z")
If there was a stealing of signs in a cricket game, would our outrage have to match exactly also? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/8 "2010-05-15T18:49:59Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > For that matter, where’s the SDMB outrage? This is exactly the same thing the Patriots got busted for, so if your outrage at the Pats doesn’t exactly match your outrage at the Phillies, you are a hypocrite. Well, if it makes you feel any better, i’m exactly as outraged about this as i was about the New England Patriots. I don’t recall if i actually contributed to any of the threads about the Patriots, but i thought it was cheating and they should have been punished, and i feel basically the same way about this incident. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-stealing-signs/539302/9 "2010-05-15T22:41:58Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > For that matter, where’s the SDMB outrage? This is exactly the same thing the Patriots got busted for, so if your outrage at the Pats doesn’t exactly match your outrage at the Phillies, you are a hypocrite. Not really. I don’t care about baseball. Stealing signs is bad. Yawn. Seems like there was some controversy in a soccer game a few months ago, something about a undetected handball on a crucial goal. Snore. I don’t care about soccer either. I like football. I follow football. Cheating in football outrages me because it affects teams I care about. Ergo, I can be outraged at the Patriots while yawning at the Phillies without being a hypocrite.