# What's the deal with SWTOR anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 31, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803 "2011-08-31T23:43:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/21 "2011-09-01T18:11:24Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > No, really, release-day SWG was baaaaaad. I always hear people bitching about the NCE as the point where it turned shitty, but I didn’t even stay long enough to see that happen. SWG was the first game I ever beta tested. I was _involved_, too, and contributed to the message boards and played as much as I could. I understand the role of beta testing, unlike some who see it as a chance to play early for free. I am a hardcore Star Wars geek, and not just a Jedi-wannabe; I in fact argued strenuously _against_ including Jedi, because there simply were no Jedi during the period of time selected for SWG. I had _dreams_ about being a badass Imperial Squad Leader in the game. I was hyped up for it like you wouldn’t believe, convinced that it would be one of the best MMOs ever. And after seeing what the game was like just before it went gold, I had absolutely no interest in buying it. SWG was pretty damn flawed from the get-go. ---
**Author:** ![Teufelblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@Teufelblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teufelblitz)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/22 "2011-09-01T18:17:06Z")
I was in at release as well. There were more than quest terminal grind quests from the beginning. There were also a lot of things that needed refining. The problem in my eyes is that they caved to pressure to add jedi and went the wrong direction with the combat changes. To me, it didnt suck, but needed work. Alas, I disagreed with the work they chose to do. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/23 "2011-09-01T18:33:17Z")
Thanks for those numbers, **AClockworkMelon**. It seems 100k-200k is the magic number of subscribers to keep those older MMO’s afloat. It’s too bad Star Trek Online isn’t doing better. I like that setting. > [@DigitalC](#): > > SWTOR has cost several hundred millions to make, none of those other games even come close to that budget. Where did you get this info? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/24 "2011-09-01T19:13:24Z")
There’s been several values given, but EA’s keeping mostly mum on the subject, exscept to deny anything anyone says. They sort of grudgingly admitted “maybe $80 million” but that was quite some time back, and it’s not clear how honest they were being. The EA Louse blogger claimed they had budgeted something like 300 millions for the game. EA investors are reportedly very concerned about the game. Either at 100 mill or 300, it has to be bringing in subscribers in the hundreds and the thousands. Assume it’s a 100 mill game with 15 a month fee - generous assumptions all around. If you want to make the investment back (no profits), you need to earn 6,666,667 subscriber-months. Even if this thing magically has a million subscribers on day 1 (… improbable), you still need six months after release to make your money back. A more realistic 150,000 average subscribers could be a fiscal disaster. That doesn’t mean the game will die - as long as it’s covering the operating cost, they’ll keep it going. And this has in development for years. If this sputters out of the gate, or starts hopefully and then falls off, it will be a massive loss. And if it actually does come in towards the 300$ mill end, that’s like flying to the Olympics with a planemade from gold and diamonds, running on a fuel supply of platinum and Nobel prizes. You either win at everything, or you’re gone. That’s why this worries me: it’s not that I think the game will or won’t be good. It’s that it has to be the most spectacular game in history, and I see nothing to suggest they’ve actually done that. Bioware has no experience whatsoever with MMO’s, and EA’s record is all failure. I sincerely hope they’re up for it. Bioware probably won’t exist anymore if this fails: some EA manager will stick a knife into them so hard Bioware fans will wonder why we have a sharp pointy thing jutting from our chests. Of course, it would really stick it to EA, which is a very good thing. Edit to add: one huge issue is that the project was started years ago. By years ago, I mean it got started when the MMO market was _vastly_ different than it is now. If you want to hang with friends in an online game, you have WoW, and if your friends are on WoW, you’ll probably stay. It’s as much a social site as a game. But if not, or if you and are pals are just getting involved, you can hang around DDO, LotRO, Champions, or any of the fun and addicting Nexon properties. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/25 "2011-09-01T19:39:25Z")
> [@Teufelblitz](#): > > If you play in the beta, you have agreed to the NDA. For the most part, the worst that has come of releasing info is the loss of beta accounts, but they do have grounds to do more if details get released. You’re welcome to divulge what you wish, of course, but I’ll stick with vague overall impressions myself. I have not played in the beta. I do know a developer, have watched livestreams, and have been paying attention to videos and leaks fairly darn well. I can answer most questions truthfully. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/26 "2011-09-01T19:55:09Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > There’s been several values given, but EA’s keeping mostly mum on the subject, exscept to deny anything anyone says. They sort of grudgingly admitted “maybe $80 million” but that was quite some time back, and it’s not clear how honest they were being. The EA Louse blogger claimed they had budgeted something like 300 millions for the game. I regularly read EA’s financial reports/transcripts of financial calls and while the execs don’t want to spill an exact number, “a metric shit ton of money” seems to be a pretty accurate guess. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/27 "2011-09-01T19:56:17Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I have not played in the beta. I do know a developer, have watched livestreams, and have been paying attention to videos and leaks fairly darn well. > > I can answer most questions truthfully. Will Naked Female Twi’lek be a class? My decision to buy this game largely hinges on the answer to that question. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/28 "2011-09-01T23:22:01Z")
Sorry. You can play it for a few classes, but you can’t get naked. But there is a NPC female Twi’lek you can seduce. Her name is Vette. The headtails are animated. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/29 "2011-09-01T23:43:12Z")
WoW was 100 million, and that was in 04 and without hundreds of hours of voice acting. The number most usually quoted for swtor is [300 million](http://www.vg247.com/2010/10/13/rumor-ea-lay-offs-coming-in-november-spent-300m-on-swtor/). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/30 "2011-09-02T00:15:35Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Sorry. You can play it for a few classes, but you can’t get naked. > > But there is a NPC female Twi’lek you can seduce. Her name is Vette. > > The headtails are animated. Twi’Lek is still a playable race, right ? 'Cause I remember the bikini-clad Twi’Lek females from SWG. They would /tell you long time :). ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/31 "2011-09-02T10:40:58Z")
Yes, yes it is. I forget the precise classes it’s available for. I think it’s either-side not-Jedi/Sith (hood clipping issues with the lekku.) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/32 "2011-09-02T17:29:19Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > WoW was 100 million, and that was in 04 and without hundreds of hours of voice acting. The number most usually quoted for swtor is [300 million](http://www.vg247.com/2010/10/13/rumor-ea-lay-offs-coming-in-november-spent-300m-on-swtor/). I believe it. Of course, I really thught WoW wasn’t going to take off like it did. But they opened that game up for a much wider array of computers and gamer-styles than SWTOR appears to be heading towards. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/33 "2011-09-02T17:36:06Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But we already had Star Wars. And not weak tea “old republic” Star Wars, I mean proper Star Wars, with the Empire and Luke and Vador and Stormtroopers and everything. > > It sucked. Oh lawdy lawd, how it sucked. Sure, because it was badly planned and executed all the way through. They wanted Jedi, but that didn’t happen. They wanted to be Rebels fighting Imperials (or vice versa), and what did you get? Thirty PCs shooting at a single stormtrooper for half an hour before he finally died. It was a terrible game…they squandered a license and, more importantly, forgot to put in the fun. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/34 "2011-09-02T20:10:57Z")
**Merijeek** , I can’t believe that isn’t an exaggeration, but given the current state of gaming I can almost believe it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/35 "2011-09-02T20:26:10Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I believe it. Of course, I really thught WoW wasn’t going to take off like it did. It is definately interesting. Warcraft was a real time strategy game, and in the game, you command foraging units (workers) to chop wood, mine gold or rock to build (or upgrade) better buildings and army units to go conquer the rest of the map. Basing an MMO on it does not seem to me to be an intuitive choice. (It’s like “Age of Empires: The Berry Gathering”, or “Command and Conquer: Starring YOU!”) But… they (Blizzard) held the Intellectual Property Licence on that title, so I guess it seemed cheaper that way. Star Wars comes with a much larger pop culture presence. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/36 "2011-09-06T14:47:50Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > **Merijeek** , I can’t believe that isn’t an exaggeration, but given the current state of gaming I can almost believe it anyway. Hard to believe, but it wasn’t an exaggeration. Anything bigger than rat-equivalents you needed to be a major league badass to kill. That included Stormtroopers. Or, more accurately, Stormtrooper. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/37 "2011-09-06T14:52:42Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Hard to believe, but it wasn’t an exaggeration. Anything bigger than rat-equivalents you needed to be a major league badass to kill. That included Stormtroopers. Or, more accurately, Stormtrooper. > > -Joe That’s one thing I kind of like about Lord of the Rings Online. If I’m a Hobbit in the Shire, it makes _sense_ that my main enemies for quite a while will be pissed-off shrews, wolves, and pigs. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/38 "2011-09-06T15:24:39Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Will Naked Female Twi’lek be a class? My decision to buy this game largely hinges on the answer to that question. Yes, but to open it youfirst have to finish the game as Naked Male Hutt. > [@mlees](#): > > It is definately interesting. Warcraft was a real time strategy game, and in the game, you command foraging units (workers) to chop wood, mine gold or rock to build (or upgrade) better buildings and army units to go conquer the rest of the map. Basing an MMO on it does not seem to me to be an intuitive choice. Interestingly, this is what WOW does as well only you don’t get to build buildings and the poor sap gathering materials is the same one they make do all the wetwork…you. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/39 "2011-09-06T16:05:02Z")
When SWG launched you couldn’t be a Jedi, but you could be a pikeman, dancer or hairdresser. You had no space combat, but you could be the best bantha milkman in the galaxy. Combat was a broken mess but gathering and crafting was incredible. It appealed to a certain group of gamers but it was a failure as a star wars mmo. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803/40 "2011-09-06T16:07:22Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > When SWG launched you couldn’t be a Jedi, but you could be a pikeman, dancer or hairdresser. You had no space combat, but you could be the best bantha milkman in the galaxy. Combat was a broken mess but gathering and crafting was incredible. It appealed to a certain group of gamers but it was a failure as a star wars mmo. Yeah, that’s what I remember from videos and reviews after release. Nothing much was said about combat, but oh _man_ could Boba Fett dance! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-swtor-anyway/594803.md?page=3)