# what's the deal with the american circumcising? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 13, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991 "2004-03-13T00:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/41 "2004-03-13T13:11:29Z")
Another possiblity that hasn’t been mentioned yet - how hard was this procedure pushed in US hospitals over the years solely for the purpose of being able to charge the extra fee for the procedure? ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/42 "2004-03-13T13:16:10Z")
Btw. How _is_ masturbation changed for you circumcised males? I know I rely on the skin for my technique, but surely there are ways to go around it. As for circumcising for medical purposes… I asked a doctor about it, and he said that there is minimum skin removed, as much as there is needed to remove for the problem to disappear. The top snippet, in other words. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/43 "2004-03-13T13:16:13Z")
> [@5cents](#): > > I had always wondered if circumcision was common in the US partially because there are so many Jewish doctors here, and cultural bias feeds into medical bias. I mean, this 19th century masturbation stuff seems like a bit of a reach, in what is now the 21st century. The masturbation stuff might have started it, but perhaps it has stuck around not only due to inertia but also due to cultural influence of doctors? I’ve heard “it’s a Jewish influence before” and while I don’t argue there’s _no_ Jewish influence, especially in someplace like New York City, (it’s a fairly obvious question), it _doesn’t_ explain why this was the standard practice even in places like Iowa where the number of Jews, even among doctors, is pretty darn small. _Yes, it really was the anti-masturbation crowd_ who got the ball rolling. Amazing as it seems today. In addition to circumcism in both infants and adults, various devices, many of them spiked, were employed to “discourage” even erections, much less masturbation, as well as techniques like infibulation (well, OK, that _required_ a foreskin to work, but if it _didn’t_ work there was circumcism and spikey codpieces) And the largest promoters of circumcism to promote non-masturbation were Christian doctors, not Jewish. There is also quite a gulf from the Jewish rite of circumcism - performed _8 days after birth_ in a religious ritual and the non-Jewish circumcism which was not only performed shortly after birth, sometimes even the same day as birth, but was treated with all the routine chore attitude of snipping the umbilical cord. The Jewish side of my family used to tell horror stories about Jewish mothers going to Christian hospitals and having their sons presented to them already snipped - which certainly would cause problems for the _mohel_ a week later. Jewish mothers _did not_ want to deliver in non-Jewish hospitals for that reason. For them, it wasn’t the cutting that was important, but that it be done with the proper ceremony. It wasn’t that uncommon even through the 70’s and early 80’s for parents to _specifically say NO CIRCUMCISM_ and still be presented with a child already cut - the custom ran _that_ strongly through the medical system. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/44 "2004-03-13T13:26:31Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > As to the hygiene thing: an uncircumsised male can get round the problems of hygiene by the simple expedience of _washing his fucking cock_. As opposed to the other one? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/45 "2004-03-13T13:27:03Z")
> [@cactus waltz](#): > > Btw. How _is_ masturbation changed for you circumcised males? I know I rely on the skin for my technique, but surely there are ways to go around it. > > As for circumcising for medical purposes… I asked a doctor about it, and he said that there is minimum skin removed, as much as there is needed to remove for the problem to disappear. The top snippet, in other words. I don’t think it’s changed much. You just hold the skin around the shaft and move it up and down. There’s still plenty of skin, it’s just not enough to cover the head. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/46 "2004-03-13T13:43:24Z")
> [@cactus waltz](#): > > Btw. How _is_ masturbation changed for you circumcised males? I know I rely on the skin for my technique, but surely there are ways to go around it. A few years ago I was mystified when my American friends made comments about ‘lube’ - I had no idea this was an oblique reference to wanking. I’d therefore hazard a guess that some circumsised men use hand cream and the like to prevent friction burn. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/47 "2004-03-13T13:48:52Z")
> [@1920s Style Death Ray](#): > > I don’t think it’s changed much. You just hold the skin around the shaft and move it up and down. There’s still plenty of skin, it’s just not enough to cover the head. Could you suppose then, that the amount of skin removed has been lessened throughout the years, or was the surgery futile to begin with? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/48 "2004-03-13T14:09:32Z")
IMHO, as long as good hygiene is practiced the procedure is futile. Personally, I can’t imagine anyone not “practicing good hygiene” in the shower - it’s just too much fun not to “thoroughly practice”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/49 "2004-03-13T14:13:14Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > As opposed to the other one? 😃 “Despite what mommy said to you, It’s not just made for pissing through.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/50 "2004-03-13T14:26:21Z")
> [@cactus waltz](#): > > Could you suppose then, that the amount of skin removed has been lessened throughout the years, or was the surgery futile to begin with? I don’t know. Think of it this way though, you can rub a cat’s back so that your hand isn’t rubbing the actual skin, but you are moving the skin over its back. There doesn’t need to be a big flap of extra skin by his tail to do this though, the skin is just loose enough to be rubbed over his back. I don’t have any foreskin left, but the skin is loose enough to not _need_ any lube. Lube can be fun though. It occurs to me that it is a good thing that I will probably never meet any of you in real life. ---
**Author:** ![LorieSmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@LorieSmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LorieSmurf)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/51 "2004-03-13T14:26:50Z")
> [@ageless6](#): > > I must say I’m mystified that not one jDT reference has appeared in this thread. How quickly we forget even the truly great departed loonies. I was wondering the same thing. Someone needs to provide links. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/52 "2004-03-13T14:37:57Z")
> [@1920s Style Death Ray](#): > > Ha! So you _have_ seen an uncut penis! 🙂 Technically, yes, although he is only 5 months old and I’m still mystified about what they would have removed if I had elected to have him circumcised. What I mean to say is I have never seen an adult uncut penis. My husband had no “he must look like me” issues. And we didn’t think it necessary to have surgery done on the kid simply because he was a boy and everyone else did it. When I told my doctor that we weren’t having our son snipped, he told me he doesn’t advocate circumcision but will support the parents if they feel it must be done. I was happy to hear this because every non medical person I have spoken to on this issue seemed aghast that we would make this choice and some demanded to know what my doctor had to say on the issue. They were quite surprised when I told them 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/53 "2004-03-13T15:22:44Z")
I think we can do with less tips on masturbatory techniques, debates about mutilation and polls on aesthetics. Let’s at least try to stick to the factual question of how the trend got started. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![Race\_Bannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Race\_Bannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Race_Bannon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/54 "2004-03-13T15:45:26Z")
My case story (FWIW). I was born in a small Iowa town, and was cut in infancy - days after birth. I believe it was because “everybody does it” to their male child. There was zero Jewish influence in my community. I know that my mother had a big hang up about masturbation (believing it was sinful), but my parents never explained why they had me cut. It wasn’t until I moved far away from home that I ever saw another male in the natural state. When we started having kids, we decided not to circ our sons. But, we never had any (3 girls). In one of my wife’s childbirths, we didn’t know the sex of the child, but we made it clear that we would want no circumcision. It turned out girl, but we gave her a name that is usually associated with males. When we got the bill for the delivery, the OB/GYN charged us for circumcision. We had to have a talk about that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Zamboni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Zamboni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Zamboni)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/55 "2004-03-13T17:27:18Z")
Referring to the OP: It is probably cultural inertia and medical pressure, as another poster said. My parents felt forced to snip me because the doctors all said so. ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/56 "2004-03-13T21:11:23Z")
> [@1920s Style Death Ray](#): > > I don’t have any foreskin left, but the skin is loose enough to not _need_ any lube. Lube can be fun though. The problem is this: when cutting the infantile penis, it’s impossible, literally impossible, to know “how much” skin is too much. It’s impossible to know how much that individual boy’s penis will grow at puberty, whether he will be a “shower” or a “grower” (a ‘grower’ can get away with a whole lot less shaft skin when flaccid, but needs it to become fully erect). A number of the men on the restore-list claim that after restoration, they have gained as much as an inch in length and an inch in diameter, because they had insufficient skin to accommodate their natural, fully-erect penis - if it were allowed to attain its full natural size. So, apparently, they had more skin removed than their penises required. Some of the men were cut so very tight that they literally got tears in their skin with erections during puberty. Some of them got cut so tight that every erection hurts, and they do not and cannot enjoy sex. Some had so much frenulum excised that they literally cannot get enough stimulation to trigger ejaculation. Ever. No matter what they do, with women, men, or their own hands. So, not every man who was cut as an infant ends up with enough loose skin to masturbate with. In those cases, lube is absolutely essential. And even it may not be enough. I think it’s a mistake to think of the foreskin as being ‘a flap of skin’. Rather, the penis is naturally enclosed in an oversized tube of muscle and skin. None of it is “extra”. But removing it can definitely leave “not enough” for even marginal function. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/57 "2004-03-15T12:39:02Z")
Some studies have shown that there is a reduced risk of cervical cancer in (female) partners of circumcised men. [http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/346/15/1105](http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/346/15/1105) : > [@](#): > > Conclusions Male circumcision is associated with a reduced risk of penile HPV infection and, in the case of men with a history of multiple sexual partners, a reduced risk of cervical cancer in their current female partners. [http://www.cfpc.ca/cfp/2003/sep/vol49-sep-critical-1.asp](http://www.cfpc.ca/cfp/2003/sep/vol49-sep-critical-1.asp) : > [@](#): > > Overall prevalence of circumcision was 19.3%; circumcised men had higher levels of education and reported less frequent genital washing compared with uncircumcised men (40.5% vs 23.0%). In all groups, circumcised men had lower prevalence of HPV (5.5% vs 19.6%). With circumcision, the odds ratio (OR) for penile HPV was 0.37 (95% confidence interval [CI] 0.16 to 0.85) after adjusting for age, level of education, age at first intercourse, lifetime number of sexual partners, and frequency of genital washing after sex. This result persisted whether or not female partners had cervical HPV or cancer. Apart from being uncircumcised, the only other significant risk factor for penile HPV was the number of men’s sexual partners. > > Female partners of circumcised men had a moderate but nonsignificant decrease in risk of cervical cancer (OR 0.72, 95% CI 0.49 to 1.04). This inverse association was not changed by any of the women’s variables. Monogamous female partners of circumcised men at high risk of HPV (intercourse before age 17, six or more sexual partners, and history of contact with prostitutes) had a significant reduction in risk of cervical cancer (OR 0.18, 95% CI 0.04 to 0.89). If both male and female partners were at low risk of infection, the women’s risk of cervical cancer was similar whether their partners were circumcised or uncircumcised (OR 1.61, 95% CI 0.86 to 3.02) I looked for articles that contradicted these studies, but all I could find were listed on what I considered activist websites, not medical websites. If I were the guardian of a baby boy, I’d probably leave him uncut, despite these findings. He could always get cut later if he wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/58 "2004-03-18T06:00:21Z")
Hm, american ex husband snipped, previous german boyfriend not snipped. No particular preference to one way or the other. Tthe bf _always_ insisted on washing up before and after s#x - though that may have been one of those german hygene thangs. ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/59 "2004-03-18T14:13:21Z")
Spike Milligan was circumcised and had no idea why (he suggested to make it lighter). Now, he was born in Ahmed Nagar, India, at around the end of the Great War, so does that help at all? Are there lots of Indian doctors in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991/60 "2004-03-18T14:26:01Z")
> [@Chotii](#): > > Some of the men were cut so very tight that they literally got tears in their skin with erections during puberty. Some of them got cut so tight that every erection hurts, and they do not and cannot enjoy sex. Some had so much frenulum excised that they literally cannot get enough stimulation to trigger ejaculation. Ever. No matter what they do, with women, men, or their own hands. Would you say these outcomes were common, or, as I suspect, exceedingly rare? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-american-circumcising/233991.md?page=4)