# What's the Deal with the Falkland Islands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629 "2012-01-25T19:49:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/201 "2012-02-16T04:32:36Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > If you actually felt you had a leg to stand on, why on earth would you countenance the remarks of some blithering idiot damnfool celebrity who quite obviously has no knowledge of or standing in the matter? It looks good for their government in the local press. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/202 "2012-02-16T04:55:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > All I can Google on that is : You didn’t get the wikipedia biography of Menachem Begin as a result on Google? In short, Begin’s formative political years were spent as a terrorist against the British in what is now Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/203 "2012-02-16T05:13:30Z")
I highly recommend Duncan Anderson’s short history, _The Falklands War 1982_ (Osprey 2002). Not a word in there about any Israel role at all. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/204 "2012-02-16T08:49:05Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > Quickly looked over the thread and I don’t think it was mentioned that it seems like the Commonwealth of Nations [support the British claim](http://www.thecommonwealth.org/YearbookInternal/140416/140425/falkland_islands/). That’s 54 nations. > > So from what I can gather so far: > > Falklands: > > - The EU (= 27 states) > - The US > - The commonwealth (=57) > (- The people of the Falklands > - The UK) - technically already in EU & Commonwealth > > Malvinas: > > - China > - Maybe still Israel (they helped out in the last war, right?) ??? > - Community of Latin American and Caribbean States (= 33 states) > (- Argentina) - already in CLACS > > Can anyone add to the list? Clarify/rectify positions on the list? You can’t count countries this way: not every opinion expressed on behalf of a group is held by its constituent members. You can say that it is only if you know that the group arrived at this opinion through an inclusive, democratic decision-making process and that the vote was unanimous. We know for a fact that this isn’t the case for the Falklands/Malvinas issue because the set of Community of Latin American and Caribbean States members and Commonwealth members is not disjoint. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/205 "2012-02-16T10:25:56Z")
Unless Argentina’s friends want to put some skin in the game they can line up as many people as they like for their ‘We wants it, the Precious’ desires. Still ain’t going to happen until the Islanders agree or Argentina establishes an overwhelming military superiority. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/206 "2012-02-16T10:35:57Z")
And this is just stupid: > **[Falklands tension: Argentina condemns UK MPs visit](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17053609)** > > Argentina condemns a planned visit to the Falkland Islands by British MPs as another sign of the UK's "militarisation" of the dispute. > [@](#): > > Argentina has condemned a planned visit to the Falkland Islands by UK MPs as another sign of Britain’s “militarisation” of the South Atlantic. > > The plans for a visit by members of the Commons defence select committee emerged on Tuesday. Of course the Commons defence select committee is showing an interest BECAUSE YOU LOT ARE SHOWING SIGNS OF GETTING UPPITY AGAIN. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/207 "2012-02-16T11:12:38Z")
Sod it, this is getting dull. Time to actually just go with it. “You’re planning to militarise the Falklands” “Hmm. Good idea. OK.” Come on, it’ll be fun. Double the aircraft, few rapier units, and a couple of “we neither confirm nor deny the presence of submarines in the international waters in the area” and the wibbling tantrums will reach epic proportions. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/208 "2012-02-16T11:13:05Z")
Norwegian intelligence was crucial to the British in the Falklands War. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/209 "2012-02-16T12:40:47Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > You can’t count countries this way: not every opinion expressed on behalf of a group is held by its constituent members. You can say that it is only if you know that the group arrived at this opinion through an inclusive, democratic decision-making process and that the vote was unanimous. We know for a fact that this isn’t the case for the Falklands/Malvinas issue because the set of Community of Latin American and Caribbean States members and Commonwealth members is not disjoint. I realise that, that’s why I put it down as a starting point. Others can add by saying “EU probably minus this country” etc. Even if we made a list of who supports whom based on what they actually declared at one time or another it wouldn’t really clarify much as you still might not know how they might back up the support or there might be conflicting views. There seems to be uncertainty regarding the position of Spain. I understand they signed a treaty saying Falklands are British, but then abstained from voting when it was put to the UN? Still, I’m interested in how far we might get with some sort of list, as there is significant disagreement, esp. with the Brit Galloway claiming “everyone in the whole world” supports Argentina. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/210 "2012-02-16T13:23:46Z")
1. The Falklands sit a a pretty high latitude. Consequently, they are only overflown by polar orbiting satellites. Who supplies the UK MOD with intelligence photos of the area? 2. the Falkland Islands crude oil: is it of good quality? (light/sweet), or is it the tar-like stuff found in Venezuela? Local refining might be necessary-wold it make sense to set p a refinery in the Falklands? 3)It appears that the UK is letting it be known that they intend to keep the islands. Meanwhile, Argentina is wracked by political and economic instability-is a military coup in the offing? Stay tuned. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/211 "2012-02-16T13:33:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Meanwhile, Argentina is wracked by political and economic instability-is a military coup in the offing? > Stay tuned. WHAT!? I don’t see any wracking around here, the president was just reelected with 54% of the vote, unemployment is low, country is growing at 5% GDP or more. What the frack are you talking about **ralph124c**? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/212 "2012-02-16T13:49:04Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > WHAT!? > > I don’t see any wracking around here, the president was just reelected with 54% of the vote, unemployment is low, country is growing at 5% GDP or more. > > What the frack are you talking about **ralph124c**? Well, if all of those “gainfully employed” folk are out protesting the “illegal occupation of the Malvinas”-I guess their “jobs” allow them a lot of time off. The real estate markey in Brazil (Rio de Janeiro) is being invaded by Argentine investors-they are offering insane prices for properties. I sense an Argentine currency devaluation might be coming.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/213 "2012-02-16T13:54:25Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Well, if all of those “gainfully employed” folk are out protesting the “illegal occupation of the Malvinas”-I guess their “jobs” allow them a lot of time off. > The real estate markey in Brazil (Rio de Janeiro) is being invaded by Argentine investors-they are offering insane prices for properties. > I sense an Argentine currency devaluation might be coming.😃 I sense you don’t know what you are talking about. But hey!, what do I know? I only live here, I’m sure you know far more about the real situation of my own country :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/214 "2012-02-16T15:10:33Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > 1. The Falklands sit a a pretty high latitude. Consequently, they are only overflown by polar orbiting satellites. Who supplies the UK MOD with intelligence photos of the area? > 2. the Falkland Islands crude oil: is it of good quality? (light/sweet), or is it the tar-like stuff found in Venezuela? Local refining might be necessary-wold it make sense to set p a refinery in the Falklands? > 3)It appears that the UK is letting it be known that they intend to keep the islands. Meanwhile, Argentina is wracked by political and economic instability-is a military coup in the offing? > Stay tuned. I’m not an expert, but I’m fairly certain satellite photos are pretty useless for tracking mobile naval targets. It’s not as though the Argentine navy or air force have any stealthy aircraft, and the movement of ships ought to be relatively easy for the destroyer stationed at the islands to track (not to mention the two and maybe three RN submarines which are supposed to be lurking there right now). In any event, an Argentine invasion would be suicide, because there would be no air support. During the 1982 war, the UK Royal Navy lost three Harriers to Argentine fighters and shot down 30 in return (plus 20-something bombers). The Harriers were nearing the end of their operational viability as front-line fighter aircraft. The Argentine air force today almost entirely consists of the same aircraft it had then: 1960s Mirages and 1970s Israeli Mirage variants. Its only “new” aircraft are some modernized A-4 strike aircraft, and despite avionics upgrades they’re basically the same as the plane John McCain was shot down in over Vietnam. There are now four Eurofighter Typhoons permanently stationed on the Falklands (at RAF Mount Pleasant). Even the Tornado interceptors previously stationed there would be able to take on a half-dozen Argentinian aircraft at a time, thanks to beyond-visual-range missiles like the AMRAAM and Meteor (which Argentina doesn’t have). Four Typhoons could probably shoot down every combat in Argentina’s inventory, given big enough ammunition stockpiles. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/215 "2012-02-16T15:16:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Four Typhoons could probably shoot down every combat in Argentina’s inventory, given big enough ammunition stockpiles. I’d assume a different worst case depending upon which side I was on. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/216 "2012-02-16T15:36:52Z")
They have considered themselves British for generations, and proudly do so today. Being possessive and rattling of sabres over it, is a thinly veiled political distraction for Argentines. No one can seriously believe that the rest of the world will stand quietly by while these people are forced to become part of Argentina. That seems highly unlikely to me. And Sean Penn should crack a book before he opens his pie hole, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/217 "2012-02-16T16:11:57Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > They have considered themselves British for generations, and proudly do so today. > > Being possessive and rattling of sabres over it, is a thinly veiled political distraction for Argentines. > > No one can seriously believe that the rest of the world will stand quietly by while these people are forced to become part of Argentina. That seems highly unlikely to me. I’ve yet to see any Argentine democratic justification for transferring citizens against their will into the hands of a foreign government. That so trumps any claim based on some portugese guy catching sight of a rock 300 years ago or some imaginary mystical process whereby something belonging to one european empire suddenly become theirs 200 years ago. But play nice and maybe in 50 years the islanders might change their minds. All this wailing and moaning, all this ‘we wants it’ isn’t helping in that regard. Sovereignty is off the table and if Argentina is unwilling to enter talks or agreements concerning resources unless it is then it’s just ‘door/ass’ time and the UK will get on with things unilaterally. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/218 "2012-02-16T19:12:23Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > I realise that, that’s why I put it down as a starting point. Others can add by saying “EU probably minus this country” etc. Nope. Britain’s claim to the Falkland’s is explicitly affirmed in the European Union’s Treaty of Lisbon. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/219 "2012-02-16T20:44:27Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Nope. Britain’s claim to the Falkland’s is explicitly affirmed in the European Union’s Treaty of Lisbon. I couldn’t find that through Googling. Could you provide a cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/220 "2012-02-16T21:00:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I couldn’t find that through Googling. Could you provide a cite, please? The Treaty of Lisbon was essentially amendments to the earlier Maastricht Treaty and the Treaty of Rome. One of the issues dealt with, back to the Rome treaty, is the status of the Special Member States (basically the overseas possessions of EU members) and their relation to, and status within, the EU. This wiki link details the British possessions: > **[Special territories of members of the European Economic Area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_member_state_territories_and_the_European_Union)** > > The special territories of members of the European Economic Area (EEA) are the 32 special territories of EU member states and EFTA member states which, for historical, geographical, or political reasons, enjoy special status within or outside the European Union and the European Free Trade Association. > The special territories of EU member states are categorised under three headings: nine Outermost Regions (OMR) that form part of the European Union, though they benefit from derogations from som... Falkland Islanders are citizens of the EU, and by signing Lisbon, Spain agreed to this. That’s my understanding anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629.md?page=12)