# What's the Deal with the Falkland Islands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629 "2012-01-25T19:49:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/381 "2013-12-01T20:34:00Z")
At least they have a much better air base in the Falklands now. I don’t think Argentina has any carriers. I wonder if the Illustrious could be refitted back to a fixed wing platform? ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/382 "2013-12-01T23:59:16Z")
Apparently the Argentinian Navy is in a terrible state. > **[Just how bad can it get for the Argentinean Navy?](https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2012/12/just-how-bad-can-it-get-for-argentinean.html)** > > A blog about UK defence issues which tries to put a positive and fresh look at many current matters impacting UK and wider defence. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/383 "2013-12-02T00:00:46Z")
More > **[The curious case of the Frigates and the Vulture - or the sad decline of the...](https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-curious-case-of-frigates-and.html)** > > A blog about UK defence issues which tries to put a positive and fresh look at many current matters impacting UK and wider defence. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/384 "2013-12-02T01:02:38Z")
A very interesting side operation of the 1982 war. > [@](#): > > [Operation Algeciras - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Algeciras) > > Operation Algeciras was a foiled Argentine plan to sabotage a Royal Navy warship in Gibraltar during the Falklands War. The Argentine assumption was that if the British military felt vulnerable in Europe, they would decide to keep some vessels in European waters rather than send them to the Falklands. > > A commando team observed British naval traffic in the area from Spain during 1982, waiting to attack a target of opportunity when ordered, using frogmen and Italian limpet mines. > > The plan was to launch divers from Algeciras, have them swim across the bay, to Gibraltar, under cover of darkness, attach the mines to a British naval ship and swim back to Algeciras. The timed detonators would cause the mines to explode after the divers had time to safely swim back across the bay. The plan was foiled when the Spanish police became suspicious of their behaviour and arrested them before any attack could be mounted. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/385 "2013-12-02T02:42:05Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > There are active boundary disputes on both issues, and also the lower 48. I.E. the boundary on the arctic ocean between Canada/NWT and the USA/Alaska, a wee island between Canada and Greenland, and Seal/Machias Island in the Bay of Fundy. It’s commonplace for countries to have minor boundary disputes. What sets Argentina apart is that they started an exceptionally stupid and pointless war over it that killed a thousand people, lost, and still bitch about it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/386 "2013-12-02T03:28:34Z")
Yeh, with Fundy dispute, a fellow from the USA boats over once a year to assert American sovereignty, so my Uncle Gordie (who’s sole purpose in being there is to assert Canadian sovereignty) has a fish fry and tea with him. Not exactly the Argentinian model. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/387 "2013-12-02T03:37:17Z")
Not to mention, the active Canada/US/Denmark border disputes are over uninhabited areas that are about the size of a dinner plate. By contrast, Argentina’s goal is for the entire damn Falklands (with people living there) to simply change hands. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/388 "2013-12-02T03:54:14Z")
That’s an interesting point. Canada and the USA are arguing almost solely just because they can. There really isn’t much at stake over who gets Seal Island. The Falkland Islands are actually the home of living people, who virtually unanimously consider themselves British and wish to be British and have always been British. Indeed, the Canadian equivalent isn’t any of its disputes with the USA; it’s French possession of the islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon, which are much closer to Canada than the Falklands are to Argentina. The equivalent to the Falklands dispute would be if Canada seized the islands by force and then, when France sent its navy to recover them, attacked the fleet and started a full out war. It would be a disgusting, unprovoked act of war without a sliver of justification, which is of course why Canada hasn’t ever done such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/389 "2013-12-03T07:08:40Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Autodetermination only applies when it favors your side, not otherwise. America and Britain are often in favor of autodetermination but only if it favors them. Historically they never really asked those who were about to be invaded if they were in favor or not. The argument rings very hollow. If 75% of Puerto Ricans voted for independence, they would have it within 20 years, if not sooner. Just like the Panamanians took over the Canal Zone during the 1970s. I don’t think the self-determination angle is hollow at all. Then again, I also think that The Falklands would be part of Argentina if they were 30 miles off the coast. But they are 300 miles away from Rio Gallegos, Argentina. I just got that city off of google maps: I had never heard of it either. So a fast ship moving at 30 knots would take about 8 and 1/2 hours to arrive. I say the Falklands should confederate with Chile or maybe Brazil. It would provide them with better growth prospects than with geographically closer Latin American countries and enhanced political sanity. Relatively speaking. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/390 "2013-12-03T13:36:35Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > At any rate, the notion that there is somehow a side who is right and a side who is wrong is just incredibly naive. If instead of Argentina it was China or the USA or some similar powerful country those islands would have ceased to be British long time ago. Nobody cares what the inhabitants think or feel. It is just empty posturing for one’s own choir. Autodetermination only applies when it favors your side, not otherwise. America and Britain are often in favor of autodetermination but only if it favors them. Historically they never really asked those who were about to be invaded if they were in favor or not. The argument rings very hollow. Comparing the British policy of today with the British Empire of yesteryear is the hollow argument here. In just ten months time Scotland, a hugely integral lump of the UK, will hold a referendum on independence with the sanction of the British government. If it passes, Scotland will become an independent country in a matter of a year or so. This is not something the British government wants, but it is a startlingly clear indicator that when they talk about self-determination\*, they mean it. (\*autodetermination is not a word commonly used in English). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/391 "2013-12-03T14:31:55Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > At least they have a much better air base in the Falklands now. I don’t think Argentina has any carriers. > > I wonder if the Illustrious could be refitted back to a fixed wing platform? I very much doubt that the Royal Navy didn’t build some kind of back door into the plan to mothball its Harriers. ---
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/392 "2013-12-04T04:43:10Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > A very interesting side operation of the 1982 war. An equally [interesting side operation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mikado). A good thing they never actually decided to go through with it. Their escape plan if things went south was to pack it over Tierra del Fuego to Punta Arenas. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/393 "2015-03-24T17:03:15Z")
Bumped. Defending the Falklands has become an issue in the British general election campaign: [Falklands: U.K.-Argentina Tensions are Rising Again | Time](http://time.com/3756057/britain-argentina-falklands-threat/#3756057/britain-argentina-falklands-threat/) ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/394 "2015-03-24T17:33:15Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Bumped. > > Defending the Falklands has become an issue in the British general election campaign: [Falklands: U.K.-Argentina Tensions are Rising Again | TIME](http://time.com/3756057/britain-argentina-falklands-threat/#3756057/britain-argentina-falklands-threat/) Probably dog whistle domestic politics. It is in the same category as yesterday’s Conservative ‘be mean to Islamist’ drive which they know would be almost possible to implement without a good majority which they are just not going to get. All will return to normal in May. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/395 "2015-03-24T20:13:17Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Probably dog whistle domestic politics. What a blitheringly stupid statement; we made that mistake in 1982. I hope that our political masters - unlike you - remember their history. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/396 "2015-03-24T20:21:40Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Probably dog whistle domestic politics. It is in the same category as yesterday’s Conservative ‘be mean to Islamist’ drive which they know would be almost possible to implement without a good majority which they are just not going to get. > > All will return to normal in May. Controversial as it may seem, I think it is a _good_ thing to be anti-Islamist extremist and a _good thing_ to commit to defending the Falklands. You say “dog-whistle” but as the Russians reach a military supply agreement with Argentina and more young British Muslims are radicalised and tempted into the ISIS fold I sort of expect my government to react to such matters. They didn’t spring out nowhere. I suspect that in the run up to the election you’ll find \*all \*parties trying to tempt people into voting for them. Don’t make the error of thinking that only conservatives are out to trick you, that would be hopelessly naive. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/397 "2015-03-24T20:56:18Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Controversial as it may seem, I think it is a _good_ thing to be anti-Islamist extremist and a _good thing_ to commit to defending the Falklands. > > You say “dog-whistle” but as the Russians reach a military supply agreement with Argentina and more young British Muslims are radicalised and tempted into the ISIS fold I sort of expect my government to react to such matters. They didn’t spring out nowhere. > > I suspect that in the run up to the election you’ll find \*all \*parties trying to tempt people into voting for them. Don’t make the error of thinking that only conservatives are out to trick you, that would be hopelessly naive. What I am saying is that both policies are merely electioneering. Even if the Tories are elected they are unlikely to be able to implement these policies. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/398 "2015-03-24T21:33:41Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > What I am saying is that both policies are merely electioneering. Even if the Tories are elected they are unlikely to be able to implement these policies. ditto for any party on any number of policies. The Falklands one seems a straightforward enough commitment. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/399 "2015-11-24T04:24:19Z")
Bumped. Argentina has elected a new president who has pledged to improve relations with the UK: > **[Argentina's presidential hopeful promises better relations with Britain over...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/11947020/mauricio-macri-argentina-britain-falklands.html)** > > Exclusive: Mauricio Macri will not appoint a 'Falklands Minister' if elected and will work to defrost Argentina's relations with Britain, his foreign policy chief tells The Telegraph > **[Mauricio Macri](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauricio_Macri)** > > Mauricio Macri (Spanish pronunciation: \[mawˈɾisjo ˈmakɾi\] (listen); born 8 February 1959) is an Argentine businessman and politician who served as the President of Argentina from 2015 to 2019. He has been the leader of the Republican Proposal (PRO) party since its founding in 2005. He previously served as 5th Chief of Government of Buenos Aires from 2007 to 2015, and was a member of the Chamber of Deputies representing Buenos Aires from 2005 to 2007. Ideologically, he identifies himself as B... ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/400 "2015-11-24T15:18:28Z")
Reading between the lines, it sounds like a backdoor play at improving Argentine-US relations. Argentina and the UK have almost nothing in common other than soccer and antagonism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629.md?page=21)