# What's the Deal with the Falkland Islands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629 "2012-01-25T19:49:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/61 "2012-01-26T21:49:38Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > It is simply a nationalistic badge to be polished every so often. Badges? We ain’t got badges…we don’t have to show you no stinking badges! Sorry. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/62 "2012-01-26T22:42:06Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > The Argentine claim only valid in their own heads, it bears no weight in international law, such as it (is). You might even say they’re out of their falkland minds! I’m sorry, too. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/63 "2012-01-26T23:17:05Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Why would Britain be interested in some ‘mutual agreement’ reached as a matter of convenience between Peru, Uruguay, Argentina and others? > > There was no obligation to be involved or even acknowledge agreements that did not affect these territories. If Argentina decided to come to such an agreement, this was only as a result of the break down of the Spanish Vice-royalty and does not affect Britain’s claim which pre-dates the existence of any of the countries formed as a result of any of these states agreements > The fact remains, just because Argentina has arbitrarily selected some date that it feels it convenient for its own purposes, this would a stupid precedent to set around the world, think of all that boundary changes in the intervening years? Some of those changes are seen as permanent, shall we select our own convenient point in history and decide to make claims to half of France? Perhaps Mexico should make its own claims and seek compensation to the violation of its territory, the Germans and French could start another world war over Alsace-Lorraine. > > The Argentine claim only valid in their own heads, it bears no weight in international law, such as it . It is simply a nationalistic badge to be polished every so often. I wasn’t defending the claim with that argument, just answering **Little Nemo** ’s question. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/64 "2012-01-26T23:34:25Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > I am sorry she is a bitch, a nasty full of hate bitch. And Cameron is a clown. In fact, If those two had have a child together, that little spawn would have inspired Stephen King’s novel It. Hmmm… y’know, back in ye olde days that _would_ have been a solution to the impasse… > [@Frodo](#): > > Not a full bore Kirchnerista, but I do think they are the least worst government we’ve ever had. OTOH the bar has been set kinda low by everyone in living memory. _Teacher: “Class: Our soil is one of the world’s leading sources of…?” Mafalda: "Pessimists!_" ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/65 "2012-01-26T23:52:55Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Hmmm… y’know, back in ye olde days that _would_ have been a solution to the impasse… > > OTOH the bar has been set kinda low by everyone in living memory. > > _Teacher: “Class: Our soil is one of the world’s leading sources of…?” > Mafalda: "Pessimists!_" 😃 I’m very very glad to see a fellow Mafalda fan in the SDMB, truly this is an enlightened place!. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/66 "2012-01-27T01:10:45Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > here: > [Rise of the Argentine Republic - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_the_Republic_of_Argentina) > It talks about Bolivia and Paraguay, Chile was an independent “Captaincy” IIRC, and Peru had it’s own Viceroyalty. Actually I never mentioned Peru. But this wasn’t the question I was asking. If Argentina is claiming there was an agreement that the Falklands were part of the territory being handed over from Spain to Argentina, then it would have to be an agreement between Spain and Argentina. As I pointed out earlier, Argentina is arguing that Britain gave up any ownership claim to the Falklands by abandoning them in 1776. So doesn’t that mean that Spain also gave up any ownership claim to the Falklands when it abandoned them in 1811? And if Spain had given up its ownership claim to the islands in 1811 then they couldn’t have passed that no longer existent claim on to Argentina in 1816. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/67 "2012-01-27T02:02:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But this wasn’t the question I was asking. If Argentina is claiming there was an agreement that the Falklands were part of the territory being handed over from Spain to Argentina, then it would have to be an agreement between Spain and Argentina. > > As I pointed out earlier, Argentina is arguing that Britain gave up any ownership claim to the Falklands by abandoning them in 1776. So doesn’t that mean that Spain also gave up any ownership claim to the Falklands when it abandoned them in 1811? And if Spain had given up its ownership claim to the islands in 1811 then they couldn’t have passed that no longer existent claim on to Argentina in 1816. Spain did not give up its ownership claim to the Islands -or Argentina- till 1863.[Argentina and Spain celebrated a treaty that year](http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Tratado_de_Reconocimiento,_Paz_y_Amistad_celebrado_entre_la_Confederaci%C3%B3n_Argentina_y_Espa%C3%B1a). My translation of its first article: > [@](#): > > “His Catholic Majesty recognices as a free, soverign and independent nation the Argentinian Republic or Confederation, which is composed of all the states mentioned in its Federal Constitution and any other territory that legally belongs to it or belongs to it in the future… and he renounces in every way and in perpetuity, for him and his heirs, the soverignity, rights and claims that he used to have in the aforementioned Republic” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/68 "2012-01-27T02:49:44Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > Spain did not give up its ownership claim to the Islands -or Argentina- till 1863. If Argentina recognizes that a Spanish claim existing on the islands, even though Spain had no settlements on the island, doesn’t that mean that the British claim on the islands was also valid, even though it had no settlements on the island? I’d say Argentina would have a stronger claim if it adopted a consistent policy on abandonment. Simply say that any country loses its claim if it voluntarily withdraws its settlements. So neither Spain or Britain would have any claim to the island after 1811 (and Argentina would have no claim from its 1820 landing). The islands were unclaimed territory when Argentina started a settlement in 1829 and this claim would have priority over the British claim which, under this argument, would derive from their 1833 re-settlement. If these were all of the facts, then I’d say Argentina should be pushing this argument and it would have some reasonable grounds for its claim. But the problem is that when the Argentinians were planning on going to the Falklands in 1829, they asked the British government for permission to settle on the islands. This can certainly be used as an argument that the Argentinian settlers saw the islands as a British possession. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/69 "2012-01-27T02:54:01Z")
I could claim that Arkansas still belongs to France. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/70 "2012-01-27T03:09:24Z")
They gave us the Statue of Liberty. It’s the least we could do. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/71 "2012-01-27T03:43:45Z")
> [@BowlOfDucks](#): > > Democracies don’t start wars against each other. > > Thanks to the last Falklands war, Argentina is now a Democracy I believe that has been discussed here and the conclusion was “…except when they do.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/72 "2012-01-27T04:01:02Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > They gave us the Statue of Liberty. It’s the least we could do. Gave it to a bunch of damn yankees. What did we get? A [concrete Christ.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_of_the_Ozarks) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/73 "2012-02-02T06:29:33Z")
I used to be, like most Peruvian, on the pro-Malvinas side and Peruvian supported Argentina in the Falklands war (hell, people lined up in the Argentinian embassy to sign up to fight, we were Argentina only ally.). How did Argentina paid us? Selling ammo and guns to Ecuador during our war. Fuck, it they couldn’t help tey should at least be neutral. So now, it’s Falklands all the way!!! ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/74 "2012-02-02T13:11:03Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I used to be, like most Peruvian, on the pro-Malvinas side and Peruvian supported Argentina in the Falklands war (hell, people lined up in the Argentinian embassy to sign up to fight, we were Argentina only ally.). > How did Argentina paid us? Selling ammo and guns to Ecuador during our war. Fuck, it they couldn’t help tey should at least be neutral. > > So now, it’s Falklands all the way!!! Serious answer: It was one more shame of the shameful Menem years, we were(most of us) seriously angry about that incident (the selling of weapons was secret and illegal also). Joke answer: hey! the weapons and ammo we sold to Ecuador were all duds! they didn’t work, we were doing you a favor! ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/75 "2012-02-02T17:51:23Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Serious answer: It was one more shame of the shameful Menem years, we were(most of us) seriously angry about that incident (the selling of weapons was secret and illegal also). > > Joke answer: hey! the weapons and ammo we sold to Ecuador were all duds! they didn’t work, we were doing you a favor! Serious answer: You’re right, but Cristina’s apology some time ago was incredibly insincere. We in Peru are still waiting for a real apology. Joke answer: Yeah, the guns were shit , but the bullets weren’t. Interesntingly it was a package deal “We’ll only sell you the ammo if we can dump this shit on you”. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/76 "2012-02-02T18:27:48Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Serious answer: You’re right, but Cristina’s apology some time ago was incredibly insincere. We in Peru are still waiting for a real apology. > > Joke answer: Yeah, the guns were shit , but the bullets weren’t. Interesntingly it was a package deal “We’ll only sell you the ammo if we can dump this shit on you”. Didn’t know about that feeling in Perú, I can speak only by myself but I present my most abject apology about that, It’s one of the most shameful actions of the Argentinian government in the last 20 years or so (at least in the international scope). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/77 "2012-02-02T19:47:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m eagerly looking forward to Canada’s imperial phase, where we seize St. Pierre and Miquelon, the Turks and Caicos, and New England. > > Maybe old England, too. > **[Misfile - Hell High -](http://www.misfile.com/?page=1930)** > > School is tough. School is tougher when your immortal soul depends on graduation. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I could claim that Arkansas still belongs to France. I don’t know what remedy there was for France selling Louisiana to the Yankees in violation of the treaty with Spain that put Louisiana back in French hands, but if there was a remedy, it apparently was not enforced. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/78 "2012-02-02T20:07:48Z")
> **[Geography of the Falkland Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Falkland_Islands)** > > The Falkland Islands are located in the South Atlantic Ocean between 51°S and 53°S on a projection of the Patagonian Shelf, part of the South American continental shelf. In ancient geological time this shelf was part of Gondwana, and around 400 million years ago split from what is now Africa and drifted westwards from it. Today the islands are subjected to the Roaring Forties, winds that shape both their geography and climate. > The Falklands comprise two main islands, West Falkland and East Fal... Looking at this, I think the only fair way to settle this is partition. East Falkland north of the isthmus will be ceded to Suriname. Lafonia will be ceded to Equatorial Guinea. West Falkland will be ceded to Pitcairn. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/79 "2012-02-02T22:06:52Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Didn’t know about that feeling in Perú, I can speak only by myself but I present my most abject apology about that, It’s one of the most shameful actions of the Argentinian government in the last 20 years or so (at least in the international scope). Nada que un Fernet y un buen asado no puedan solucionar ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/80 "2012-02-02T23:08:24Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > [Geography of the Falkland Islands - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Falkland_Islands) > > Looking at this, I think the only fair way to settle this is partition. > > East Falkland north of the isthmus will be ceded to Suriname. > > Lafonia will be ceded to Equatorial Guinea. > > West Falkland will be ceded to Pitcairn. How about restoring them to the RIGHTFUL owners-the USA (c.f. claim of Slacum, et. al., 1842)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629.md?page=5)