# What's the Deal with the Falkland Islands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629 "2012-01-25T19:49:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/121 "2012-02-08T17:14:47Z")
To add: Without carriers the islands cannot be retaken. The trick Argentina cannot pull off is to take them in the first place. Sabre-rattling demands some sort of sabre. The Argentine military is weaker than ever and the islands are defended now. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/122 "2012-02-08T17:25:22Z")
Send Roger Waters over to the islands, have him set up the largest, loudest speakers known to mankind, and blast the entirety of _The Final Cut_ in the direction of Argentina on an endless loop. That’ll keep 'em away. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/123 "2012-02-08T17:53:55Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > If the Falklands war means anything is that the Monroe doctrine means wahtever the sitting US presidents wants. That’s all it ever really meant in the first place. It was never international law or even U.S. law, just the stated foreign policy of the Monroe Administration. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/124 "2012-02-08T17:56:40Z")
But Roger Waters is very popular here! Cite: [http://www.rogerwaterstours.com/index.php/roger-waters-wall-tour-in-argentina-for-9th-concert/](http://www.rogerwaterstours.com/index.php/roger-waters-wall-tour-in-argentina-for-9th-concert/) Of course he isn’t as popular as his Jewish cousin [Kosher Waters](http://queseyoargentina.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/kosher-waters-the-wall-mitzvah/) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/125 "2012-02-08T18:19:34Z")
The Monroe Doctrine referred to expansion of European influence in the Americas, not to enforcement of existing sovereign claims. > [@coremelt](#): > > Legit question here: > > The UK doesn’t have any aircraft carriers anymore, if the airfield on the falklands is bombed or otherwise disabled, all the UK can do is fly sorties from the Ascension Island RAF base. Thats 6000 km away. That fact alone seems to be a pretty major sign that a real physical conflict would play out very differently this time. Unless the US actually sent a carrier as air support for a UK fleet, their ships are going to be pretty vulnerable with extremely limited air support. [HMS Illustrious](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Illustrious_%28R06%29) is still in service. It’s been converted to a helicopter carrier but the RN could probably refit it and fill it with mothballed Sea Harriers in a matter of months. The Harriers would be 10 years out of date, of course, but still more than a match for Argentina’s Mirage IIIs. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/126 "2012-02-08T19:57:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have to say, the MHS Dauntless is one \*ugly \*ship. It looks like an angry garden gnome. The Type 45 destroyers aren’t particularly graceful looking, but they have typically good RN names: _Daring_, _Dauntless_, _Diamond_, _Dragon_, _Defender_ and, err, _Duncan_. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/127 "2012-02-08T20:34:40Z")
Wonder how long it took the sailors on board to rename it HMS Gormless. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/128 "2012-02-08T21:09:18Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > But the idea that there is somehow an absolutely clear ruling is just wrong. Who gives a rats ass? The inhabitants want to be part of the UK, not Argentina. That is the absolutely clear ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/129 "2012-02-08T22:19:59Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > But Roger Waters is very popular here! > Cite: [http://www.rogerwaterstours.com/index.php/roger-waters-wall-tour-in-argentina-for-9th-concert/](http://www.rogerwaterstours.com/index.php/roger-waters-wall-tour-in-argentina-for-9th-concert/) > > Of course he isn’t as popular as his Jewish cousin [Kosher Waters](http://queseyoargentina.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/kosher-waters-the-wall-mitzvah/) That was too much!!! “El músico que le hizo un bris al Rock y Pop” ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/130 "2012-02-08T22:45:53Z")
The aircraft carriers haven’t gone forever. They are currently building two, one of which is scheduled to be in service by 2016 and they will be the largest ships the Royal Navy has ever built. So if Argentina is going to plan and execute an invasion then they’d better hurry up. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/131 "2012-02-08T22:57:44Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > The aircraft carriers haven’t gone forever. They are currently building two, one of which is scheduled to be in service by 2016 and they will be the largest ships the Royal Navy has ever built. The first one is being assembled within an hours drive of me. Unfortunately they are supposed to be going to fly the F-35. So, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/132 "2012-02-08T23:16:40Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > The aircraft carriers haven’t gone forever. They are currently building two, one of which is scheduled to be in service by 2016 and they will be the largest ships the Royal Navy has ever built. The second one is already scheduled to be mothballed upon completion (and will probably be sold to the French to replace the Clemenceaux). ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/133 "2012-02-08T23:26:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The second one is already scheduled to be mothballed upon completion (and will probably be sold to the French to replace the Clemenceau). To replace the _Charles de Gaulle_. I can see that being in part-exchange for a bunch of Rafales so that the UK has something to fly off the new carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/134 "2012-02-08T23:32:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The second one is already scheduled to be mothballed upon completion (and will probably be sold to the French to replace the Clemenceaux). Plans change all the time. If we need it, plans will change. I think Cameron is right to focus his rhetoric entirely on the self-determination angle. It’s a very powerful argument, and portrays the Argentinians badly without having to say anything. If he has any sense, he’ll continue to say “Nothing to say on the matter other than that we support the Falklanders’ right to self determination”. He doesn’t need to get drawn into any other argument. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/135 "2012-02-08T23:37:32Z")
Why in the world did Britain, once the owner of the biggest most badass Navy on the planet, ever get rid of aircraft carriers? Its not like they would need twenty of them, but 2 or 3 would be pretty handy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/136 "2012-02-08T23:54:46Z")
(1) They’re quite expensive. (2) Various NATO agreements led to the Royal Navy assuming primary responsibility for anti-submarine warfare in the Atlantic. Aircraft carriers aren’t very useful for hunting submarines. Helicopter carriers, other submarines and smaller warships are. (3) The UK defence industry is more centralized than the US one. That means defence programs are easier to kill off by successive governments, because all the lost votes tend to be centralized in a few constituencies. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/137 "2012-02-09T00:11:09Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > That was too much!!! “El músico que le hizo un bris al Rock y Pop” “Peter” Capusotto is the best, I usuall look in youtube for “Peter Capusoto y sus videos”, but I think they are available in his [blog](http://capusotto.blogspot.com/)too. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/138 "2012-02-09T00:37:20Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Why in the world did Britain, once the owner of the biggest most badass Navy on the planet, ever get rid of aircraft carriers? Its not like they would need twenty of them, but 2 or 3 would be pretty handy. Politics. Budgets. Lobbyists. The usual. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/139 "2012-02-09T01:27:09Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Why in the world did Britain, once the owner of the biggest most badass Navy on the planet, ever get rid of aircraft carriers? Its not like they would need twenty of them, but 2 or 3 would be pretty handy. Horatio Nelson is turning over in his grave. At least it’s full of spirits. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629/140 "2012-02-09T01:36:09Z")
The UK still spends more on defence than any country in the world other than the US and China. I think Nelson’s probably doing alright. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-the-falkland-islands/610629.md?page=8)