What's the Deal with the Falkland Islands?

[Elendil_s_Heir]

More British government documents about the 1982 Argentine invasion and subsequent war have been released under the 30-year declassification rule. See about a third of the way down in this article about Thatcher and Jimmy Savile: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/28/world/europe/uk-archive-papers-savile/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Falklands islanders’ referendum now underway: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/10/world/americas/falklands-referendum/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[ralph124c]

The islanders would be insane to vote for absorption by Argentina-they will all become millionaires soon (fishing rights and oil leases). Under Argentine rule, they wold all be desperately poor, and everyone would leave. The Argentine government is totally incompetent-a massive currency devaluation is due soon, and (likely) a change of government.

[carnivorousplant]

@ralph124c

The islanders would be insane to vote for absorption by Argentina-they will all become millionaires soon (fishing rights and oil leases). Under Argentine rule, they wold all be desperately poor, and everyone would leave. The Argentine government is totally incompetent-a massive currency devaluation is due soon, and (likely) a change of government.

And of course, they are British.

[Little_Nemo]

@MarcusF

The difficulty, then as now, was to convince the islanders that this was what they wanted. Unfortunately there was no way the Argentinian junta could actually run a convincing campaign!

@tagos

If I were an Islander I’d want a few more decades of stable Argentine democracy and a lot less hysterical demagogery every time some politician feels a bit unpopular before I’d even begin thinking about considering a change.

Technically, Argentina didn’t have to convince the Falklanders back in 1980 that transferring the islands from British to Argentinian control would have been a good idea. They only needed to convince the British that it was a good idea and the Falklanders wouldn’t have had a real choice in the outcome. Argentina should have been taking notes when China discussed the future of Hong Kong with the British.

[gracer]

@Elendil_s_Heir

Falklands islanders’ referendum now underway: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/10/world/americas/falklands-referendum/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Thanks for resurrecting again, EH! I’m currently taking a module on the political structures of South America, and the professor seems to lean towards the Malvinas-side. She hasn’t been explicit yet though. Following this thread helps me in case I need to call BS on anything she says. She has already said the Falklands were inside Argentinian territorial waters… I’m getting kinda excited for a massive lecture hall blow out

[carnivorousplant]

@gracer

She has already said the Falklands were inside Argentinian territorial waters…

I wonder if we could stretch that to Cuba and Nova Scotia.

[Little_Nemo]

@gracer

She has already said the Falklands were inside Argentinian territorial waters

The Falklands are over 300 miles from Argentina. Territorial waters generally extend for only twelve nautical miles. Granted, some countries claim more. But Argentina is only claiming its territorial waters extend out to 24 nautical miles.

The claim that the Falklands are in Argentinian territorial waters is based on the claim that the Falklands are Argentinian territory. Therefore, the waters around the Falklands are Argentinian territorial waters.

Obviously, this is a circular argument.

[smiling_bandit]

@Little_Nemo

Obviously, this is a circular argument.

The best part about circular arguments is that there are NO HOLES IN THEM! Because if it had a hole, then the argument wouldn’t be a circle. And since it is a circvle, therefore it cannot have any holes. QED.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

All of the sudden, I have a craving for doughnuts…

[Gagundathar]

To stop your mind from wandering?

[Boyo_Jim]

As an American, I have to say that our war news videos are sadly dated, and we need exciting new war footage. I think that American TV should fund both sides for a good old fashioned shoot-em-up. Sell it under two titles – Survivor: Falklands and Survivor: Malvinas. Helmet cams on every soldier, cockpit cams in every plane.

[gracer]

@Little_Nemo

The Falklands are over 300 miles from Argentina. Territorial waters generally extend for only twelve nautical miles. Granted, some countries claim more. But Argentina is only claiming its territorial waters extend out to 24 nautical miles.

The claim that the Falklands are in Argentinian territorial waters is based on the claim that the Falklands are Argentinian territory. Therefore, the waters around the Falklands are Argentinian territorial waters.

Obviously, this is a circular argument.

Oh, am I thinking of the exclusive economic zone then? Is that 200 nautical miles? Anyway, point is, the Falklands are beyond that.

(See that’s why I need this thread, better make sure I have my own facts straight!)

[Novelty_Bobble]

@gracer

Oh, am I thinking of the exclusive economic zone then? Is that 200 nautical miles? Anyway, point is, the Falklands are beyond that.

(See that’s why I need this thread, better make sure I have my own facts straight!)

You maybe thinking of the 200 mile exclusion zone around the islands that were imposed by the UK at the time of the war.

I’d suggest you just torment your lecturer by getting her to define acceptable self-determination and what colonisation actually means, then maybe what degree geographical proximity means for previously uninhabited islands. You could then go nuclear and raise the issue of Spanish/Argentinian extermination of indigenous populations.

Lots of fun to be had there.

[gracer]

@Novelty_Bobble

You maybe thinking of the 200 mile exclusion zone around the islands that were imposed by the UK at the time of the war.

I’d suggest you just torment your lecturer by getting her to define acceptable self-determination and what colonisation actually means, then maybe what degree geographical proximity means for previously uninhabited islands. You could then go nuclear and raise the issue of Spanish/Argentinian extermination of indigenous populations.

Lots of fun to be had there.

Absolutely! We’ll see what tomorrow brings, I can kinda only go there if she brings it up, of course. I will report back if penis ensues.

[RickJay]

@Novelty_Bobble

You maybe thinking of the 200 mile exclusion zone around the islands that were imposed by the UK at the time of the war.

In fact, most countries claim a 200-nautical-mile zone of exclusive economic control around their coastline. Obviously there are many places in the world where this results in disagreement.

It is coincidental that the British “Maritime Exclusion Zone” was set at the same 200 nautical miles, though unlike an economic zone it was drawn as a perfect circle measured from the geographic centre of the Falkland Islands.

[Baron_Greenback]

Xinhua has the following to say:

BUENOS AIRES, March 10 (Xinhua) – Britain has been deliberately misleading the public to gain an advantage in its territorial dispute with Argentina over the Malvinas Islands, known as the Falklands to the British, an Argentine legal expert said Sunday.

Armando Abruzza, professor of international law at Argentina’s National University of Mar del Plata, said Britain and “colonial” authorities have “repeatedly and systematically misled (the public) by providing false or inaccurate information” on the dispute.

Residents of the Malvinas, just off the southern coast of Argentina, are casting their ballots Sunday and Monday on whether to remain as Britain’s overseas territory.

London is exploiting the principle of self-determination to maintain its hold over the islands, but the principle does not apply to the case of the Malvinas and a referendum is simply invalid, said the expert.

That is because most of the islands’ population is not indigenous but “transplanted British citizens,” and therefore cannot be asked to vote on whether they want independence from colonial rule, added Abruzza.

From http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2013-03/11/c_132224659.htm

I wonder why a state agency of China has some issues about off-shore islands?

[Baron_Greenback]

Down with self determination!

[Rune]

That is because most of the islands’ population is not indigenous but “transplanted British citizens,” and therefore cannot be asked to vote on whether they want independence from colonial rule, added Abruzza.

How long does it take to become indigenous?

[tagos]

@Little_Nemo

Technically, Argentina didn’t have to convince the Falklanders back in 1980 that transferring the islands from British to Argentinian control would have been a good idea. They only needed to convince the British that it was a good idea and the Falklanders wouldn’t have had a real choice in the outcome. Argentina should have been taking notes when China discussed the future of Hong Kong with the British.

Yes, but the UK has nailed its colours to the self-determination mast now. Argentina can pout and cry all it wants. The Falklands are remaining British for the forseeable future, unless Argentina wants to have another stab at taking them by force.

The Falklanders are no more ‘transplanted colonists’ than the Israelis are.

We’ll make Argentina a deal - when the USA decides Israel is a European colony and should be ‘given back’, we’ll ‘give’ the Falklands back. And just to be reasonable, if hell freezes over first we’ll also hand them back.

Until then Argentina can STFU.