# What's the deal with witches and broomsticks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 9, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148 "2003-07-09T02:30:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/21 "2003-07-15T05:53:36Z")
**Baldwin** said: > [@](#): > > But I do love the idea of a broomstick “disguised as a normal household object”. See, it _looks_ like a broomstick for sweeping the floor, but it’s _actually_… well, a broomstick, but one used for Magick! Actually, it’s a magic(magick) staff disguised as a normal household object. **Flyfisher** , if she weighs the same as a duck, she’s a witch. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Cobweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Dr.Cobweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Cobweb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/22 "2003-07-15T14:39:37Z")
Who is this **Irishman** , who is so learned in the ways of Science? ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/23 "2003-07-15T15:21:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CadburyAngel \* > \*\*Should we make this a sticky or something? I swear it comes around about once a month. \*\* It’s a sad thing when such a line goes unacknowledged for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/24 "2003-07-15T18:54:44Z")
If we’re going to make the distinction between “magic”, which is prestidigation, and “magick”, which is real, then one must ask what Harry Potter, say, or Merlin, does. In the context of the King Arthur stories, what Merlin does is real. Likewise, Mr. Potter does “real” magic, in the context of his stories. So are they practicing magick with a K? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/25 "2003-07-16T19:55:14Z")
Sounds reasonable to me. I think (not certain, mind you) that the pagan/wiccan crowd would agree. The real question is what does Pratchett have to say? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Cobweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Dr.Cobweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Cobweb)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/26 "2003-07-16T21:44:53Z")
Would that mean that a real guitar player would be an acoustick guitar player? ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/27 "2003-07-17T10:11:11Z")
Very comickal, Dr. Cobweb. 🙂 Julie ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/28 "2003-07-17T10:21:48Z")
What I wanna know is: Why did they append a “k”? Why not remove the “c” and THEN append the “k”? Why not call it “magik”? Are they **trying** to confuse me? ---
**Author:** ![pcroughn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@pcroughn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pcroughn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/29 "2003-07-17T22:08:53Z")
Maybe the broomsticks were like this one: > **[Controversial Nimbus 2000 Vibrating Harry Potter Broomstick Has Parents In An...](https://methodshop.com/harry-potter-broomstick/)** > > Teenage girls love it, but angry adults are leaving Amazon reviews warning other parents to steer clear. Find out why the Nimbus 2000 vibrating Harry Potter broomstick toy is so controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/30 "2003-07-17T22:26:21Z")
Or should that be **broomstics**? Julie ---
**Author:** ![quothz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/da6949/32.png) [@quothz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quothz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/31 "2003-07-20T02:05:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Cobweb \* > \*\*“Magick” remains just an affectation, and nothing more. I and a bunch of other people have agreed upon it. \*\* This is a case, I should think, of “the people who use it can decide.” Wiccans seem to have agreed (although I’m not sure I’m aware of whether Wicca is centralized) on the usage, and I’ve seen it around. According to the [alt.magick FAQ](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/magick/faq/), Aleister Crowley popularized a then-archaic term. After well over a hundred years of usage among the mystic-types, I’d guess that it’s fairly well-established. We also note that Robert Asprin used the term exclusively in _Another\_Fine\_Myth_ and its sequels, and with his notable background as an editor it’s hard to imagine him using the term lightly. If memory serves me, the topic is briefly discussed by a couple characters in the book, but it could just be my mind playing tricks after reading this thread and related materials. Cheers – – Quothz [quothz@yahoo.com](mailto:quothz@yahoo.com) ---
**Author:** ![quothz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/da6949/32.png) [@quothz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quothz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/32 "2003-07-20T02:11:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Cobweb \* > \*\*“Magick” remains just an affectation, and nothing more. I and a bunch of other people have agreed upon it. \*\* This is a case, I should think, of “the people who use it can decide.” Wiccans seem to have agreed (although I’m not sure I’m aware of whether Wicca is centralized) on the usage, and I’ve seen it around. According to the [alt.magick FAQ](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/magick/faq/), Aleister Crowley popularized a then-archaic term. After well over a hundred years of usage among the mystic-types, I’d guess that it’s fairly well-established. We also note that Robert Asprin used the term exclusively in _Another\_Fine\_Myth_ and its sequels, and with his notable background as an editor it’s hard to imagine him using the term lightly. If memory serves me, the topic is briefly discussed by a couple characters in the book, but it could just be my mind playing tricks after reading this thread and related materials. Cheers – – Quothz [quothz@yahoo.com](mailto:quothz@yahoo.com) ---
**Author:** ![quothz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/da6949/32.png) [@quothz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quothz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/33 "2003-07-20T02:18:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Cobweb \* > \*\*“Magick” remains just an affectation, and nothing more. I and a bunch of other people have agreed upon it. \*\* This is a case, I should think, of “the people who use it can decide.” Wiccans seem to have agreed (although I’m not aware of whether Wicca is centralized) on the usage, and I’ve seen it around. According to the [alt.magick FAQ](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/magick/faq/), Aleister Crowley popularized a then-archaic term. After well over a hundred years of usage among the mystic-types, I’d guess that it’s fairly well-established. We also note that Robert Asprin used the term exclusively in _Another\_Fine\_Myth_ and its sequels, and with his notable background as an editor it’s hard to imagine him using the term lightly. If memory serves me, the topic is briefly discussed by a couple characters in the book, but it could just be my mind playing tricks after reading this thread and related materials. Cheers – – Quothz [quothz@yahoo.com](mailto:quothz@yahoo.com) ---
**Author:** ![quothz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/da6949/32.png) [@quothz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quothz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/34 "2003-07-20T02:24:23Z")
## Gah, sorry, kept getting timeouts and thinking it hadn’t gone through. Er, I’ve slightly edited between posts. Quothz ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/35 "2003-07-21T01:37:29Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by RiverRunner \* quote: > > ## . . . when the Bible says to, in short, dispose of those who practice Witchcraft it was actually an alteration by the Spanish Inquisition, where the original text states that all those who act in a hostile manner towards loyal Christians are to be properly informed of their act of blasphemy and therein have their souls saved. > > \*\*I almost hate to ask, but I have to: cite? This is a new one on me, and I’m not buying it without some **very** convincing backup. > RR \*\* Exodus 22:18 “mkasheepaah lo’ tchayeh” in Hebrew/“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” “M’kasheepaah”, translated “witch” or in modern versions “sorceress”, literally means “whisperer” or “enchanter” (the root is “kishuf/p”- whisper" & is related to “nakhash”/serpent), which in Atlantis’s interpretation is taken to mean “slanderer/gossiper/rumor-monger/false accuser”. However, Hebrew authorities agree it does indeed mean those who mutter incantations/cast spells- some will qualify that to also imply they be harmful spells. As an aside, it is often claimed that the word really should be translated “poisoner”. This is using the Greek Septuagint translation which renders “m’kasheepaah” as"pharmakaios", which literally means “drugger”. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/36 "2003-07-21T03:15:23Z")
What I’d like to see is a cite to back up the false claim that the “Spanish Inquisition” or any office of Inquisition “changed” the interpretation. Now, I have come across a claim in _Discoverie of Witchcraft_, written during the era of James IV and I of Scotland and England, that it was the “witchmongers” who changed the interpretation, but “witchmonger” was not considered identical to “Inquisition” in that particular book. It should be noted that the book was a “Discoverie” in the sense of being an exposé of the weaknesses of the claims of those who would try and punish so-called “witches”. ---
**Author:** ![LadyV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d9b06d/32.png) [@LadyV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadyV)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/37 "2003-07-21T19:32:18Z")
The “K” is used to distinguish between the slight of had “magic” and the Magick used to brig about change within ones surroundings from will. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/38 "2003-07-22T06:38:33Z")
Dogface- it’s doubtful that the Inquisition, Spanish or otherwise, had anything to do with the interpretation. Mainly because the Inquisitions had little to do with the Witch Hunts, focusing instead on “heretics” such as Cathars, Marranos Jews & Protestants. Indeed, some sites (I don’t have the addies handy, alas) from neo-Pagan historians on “the Burning Times” have even noted that some Witch Hunts were interrupted by the Inquisitions. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/39 "2003-07-28T01:39:42Z")
**FriarTed** , what I wanted a cite for is the supposed change in the interpretation set out in the OP, as **Dogface** has mentioned. My take is the same as yours in your above post. Thanks, RR ---
**Author:** ![Stoopnagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Stoopnagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoopnagle)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2003, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148/40 "2003-08-03T12:30:38Z")
I have no evidence at _all_ of this being the case, but I find it likely that to a peasant for whom life under the rule of the Godly might have been very unpleasant, there might well have been an impulse to try the Other Side. If your children were starving and the priest told you it was God’s Will, you might decide that the priest was a fool (which was unlikely, since he wasn’t in the Guild) or you might just say, “Well, then maybe the Devil will give me a better deal.” Think of the devotion to evil expressed by Julia in “1984”—she’s _seen_ “Good”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks/187148.md?page=3)