# What's the deal with women only gyms? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 15, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575 "2015-06-15T12:57:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/81 "2015-06-17T14:20:35Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I think there are people who are “body language blind”. Otherwise, I can’t see how they can continue to talk to someone endlessly who is clearly bored and doesn’t want to listen. Not necessarily just at the gym, but this happens everywhere. It’s like the manager who goes on endlessly in the dept meeting about his kid’s little league game, and if you look around the room, all you see are bored, blank faces. I think these type of people may be guilty of this “innocent” harassment where they think they’re nice and interesting, but really the woman is not interested and is just being polite. I think some people are “body language blind” when it doesn’t matter to them. That manager can drone on and on to his department meeting because it doesn’t matter to him if he bores those people. But he’ll be more likely to read the body language of his boss when he’s in a meeting with him, since he wants to make a good impression there. And a guy in a bar might not read the body language of a woman he’s hitting on in a bar, because he doesn’t care if he’s making her uncomfortable; he can just keep hitting on women until he finds one who isn’t creeped out. But he might be more likely to read the body language of the big, aggressive, drunk dude in the parking lot, because he doesn’t want to get into a fight. He can be body language blind to if he’s bothering women, since it mostly doesn’t harm him, but he won’t be body language blind to certain men, since it could bodily harm him. So that’s a long winded way of saying I don’t think that being body language blind is a thing like being color blind, where it’s genetic and you can’t help it. I think it’s more a lack of empathy. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/82 "2015-06-17T15:34:37Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I think there are people who are “body language blind”. Otherwise, I can’t see how they can continue to talk to someone endlessly who is clearly bored and doesn’t want to listen. Yes, there are people who are body language-blind, but they are truly body language-blind with everyone (like your following example with the boring manager). But there are a metric fuck-ton of men out there who understand body language juuuuuust fine when they’re interacting with other men. But golly, somehow that magically disappears when he’s interacting with these strange and alien creatures you call “women”. This – completely coincidentally,\* of course\* – means he “doesn’t see” that she’s not interested or is flat out annoyed or uneasy, so he feels free to plow ahead. _Because his desire to talk to or hit on a woman is more important than her desire to be left alone_. Thing is, I’m not saying this is a conscious thought running through his mind. He’s not mentally twirling his imaginary Snidely Whiplash mustache, laughing villainously at the thought that she will be _mine_, muahahahahaaaa! This is the result of growing up and living in a sexist society\*. These attitudes and expectations are formed and supported by thousands of incredibly tiny things around us.\*\* And the same attitudes that make these\*\*\* men conveniently not able to understand women’s body languages and soft no’s … also result in some men\*\*\*\* not taking women seriously when they talk about their own experiences. They clearly misread a situation, or are exaggerating, or lying, or any other thing that means their arguments can be safely dismissed. Like when they explain why many women prefer women-only gyms… - this applies to racism, as well. \*\* which is why it’s maddening to hear people argue that there’s no real sexism or real racism today. No, there’s far less of the _extremely blatant_ sexism and racism. That means that the more subtle but still harmful sexism and racism is easy to [del]dismiss[/del] [del]hand wave away[/del] somehow not notice… Particularly if you’re in the group that isn’t the target of sexism (men) or racism (white men _and_ women). \*\*\* see this important qualifier, here? \*\*\*\* this largely includes that former group but also includes some others. ---
**Author:** ![jsquire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jsquire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsquire)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/83 "2015-06-17T19:56:51Z")
Lotta mansplaining here. Women aren’t idiots, please don’t treat them that way. I (male) never really understood how this felt until it happened to me. On a very small number of occaissions I’ve had women yell something to me while I was running. My immediate reaction was to look around for a second, then realize they were hooting at me, then smile and think “that’s nice”. In the best case scenario (not intentionally being an asshole), this is how men think women should react. Virtually always that’s not how it is. I went running one morning in Key West (a famously gay enclave)–and if you go running at 8am in a vacation spot like that you’ve mostly got the place to yourself–and passed three men having some sort of conversation. One watched me run past then quietly said to another “oh, yeah”. My gut reaction was to feel threatened. He didn’t mean it that way and after a split second to think about it I knew that, but I suddenly understood what women go through all the time. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/84 "2015-06-17T20:16:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > From birth? > > Eleanor was born in October 1884 and FDR became President in March 1933. Was she always accompanied by a chaperon? What protection/seclusion was available at Allenwood Academy? More or less, yes was always accompanied by a chaperon, for a girl and later young women of her time and social class chaperonage was the norm. Schools like Allenwood Academy existed so that wealthy families could send their daughters to school with a high degree of protection and exclusion from the world (i.e., men). ---
**Author:** ![roxie\_monoxide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6bbea6/32.png) [@roxie\_monoxide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roxie_monoxide)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/85 "2015-06-18T06:00:35Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I am skeptical ogling and harassment is commonplace. I’ve been working out at the base gym for many years, and have _never once_ seen anything that even remotely looks like ogling and harassment. > > I think overactive imaginations are at play here. Coming from a poster who has explained mutiple tiimes that he is armed to the tits to venture out to the mailbox because you have to be hyper aware at all times that someone may be out to deprive you of your life and liberty, makes me roll my eyes so far back in my head I can see my own brain stem. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/86 "2015-06-18T08:12:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Why should YOU feel embarrassed when you’ve done nothing wrong? > > And yet, YOU feel embarrassed. The question you need to answer is why you feel embarrassed. Because of this-is-not-the-Pit like you. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/87 "2015-06-18T12:06:05Z")
What we need is more men-only gyms. These gyms will have lots of gay men and being men, they are just as bad about ogling, groping, propositioning and inappropriate comments. (The substitute rejoinder for “Oh, you must be a lesbian” if you’re not interested is “Oh, so you’re a homophobe.”) It can be quite an eye-opener for straight guys to be subjected to such behaviors. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/88 "2015-06-18T13:26:26Z")
Or, it can confirm the the insecure men who’ve been bullied into aggression=masculinity, “reclaiming” it by ramping up their hostility toward women even higher. Enjoy your misandrist revenge fantasy, though. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/89 "2015-06-18T15:05:34Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > You may not see it because the bar for what you consider ogling and harassment may be too high. Harassment can be subtle and not immediately noticeable, but ogling goes on all the time. If you don’t see it happening, then either you’re at a unique gym or else you’re just not noticing it. Maybe it’s like how people who are color blind don’t easily see certain colors. > > I think also a lot of people don’t recognize it because, to them, it’s just being friendly. They see a guy talking to a woman and think nothing of it, but if you look closely you see that the woman is bored and her body language is uncomfortable. And then you notice that that same guy seems to only chat with women in the gym and none of them seem to be interested. What are the women supposed to do? Report him for chatting? This makes perfect sense, and my own wife has griped about guys (often would-be personal trainers) chatting her up while she’s trying to use the treadmill or something (when I’m not there, at least). It was the prevalence of more egregious forms of harassment, and especially groping, that seemed doubtful to me. The gyms I’ve been to are typically such open spaces that I’m not sure where someone _could_ get groped without it being witnessed by many other people. The men’s and women’s locker rooms/showers offer some hidden spots, but they are of course completely separate, so someone would really have to be in the wrong place for any shenanigans to occur. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/90 "2015-06-18T16:50:00Z")
There are certainly plenty of valid reasons why women might prefer to go a women-only gym, but the idea that women being “groped” at the gym is such a common that women need separate gyms is almost too stupid for words. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/91 "2015-06-18T17:05:29Z")
So, just to sum up: [ul] 1. It doesn’t exist because I never saw it. 2. It’s your fault because you didn’t report it. 3. It’s your fault because you didn’t yell loudly enough when it happened. 4. It’s your fault because you didn’t leave the gym. 5. It’s your fault because you didn’t tell your friends not to go to the gym. 6. It’s your fault because you didn’t have the groper arrested. 7. It’s your fault because you didn’t call the cops. 8. You don’t know how to handle it, I know how to handle it, because I am a man. 9. People don’t stand up for you because you’re not likeable! (Good one, I hadn’t heard that one before. 10. Don’t feel embarrassed, it’s not your fault. (See 2-7) 11. You don’t have to feel bad when someone gropes you! I am telling you it’s OK! 12. Eleanor Roosevelt handled men just fine, why can’t you? 13. You clearly have an overactive imagination. I’ve never seen it, so it doesn’t exist (Back to Number 1 again). 14. The idea of women being groped at the gym is too stupid for words. [/ul] THANKS, GUYS!!! YOU’RE THE BEST! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/92 "2015-06-18T17:26:54Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > THANKS, GUYS!!! YOU’RE THE BEST! I think you left “ONEHEADED” out of one of your words there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/93 "2015-06-18T18:28:09Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > It was the prevalence of more egregious forms of harassment, and especially groping, that seemed doubtful to me. The gyms I’ve been to are typically such open spaces that I’m not sure where someone _could_ get groped without it being witnessed by many other people. The men’s and women’s locker rooms/showers offer some hidden spots, but they are of course completely separate, so someone would really have to be in the wrong place for any shenanigans to occur. What makes you think that men who grope require complete privacy before they attempt to molest a woman? A few weeks ago, I was standing at the back of a large group of people at a bus stop. A guy wearing sunglasses came and stood behind me. I started to feel something odd, like the hem of my skirt creeping up my thigh. I reached back to smooth my skirt down, thinking maybe it was lying funny. I ended up discovering that the guy standing behind me had hooked the fabric over one of his fingers and was slowly lifting my skirt! He did this even though I was in a large group of friends. He didn’t seem to need complete privacy–he just relied on the fact that I was at the far edge of the group, and no one was likely to see, and the sunglasses concealed where he was looking. Sure enough, no one in my group did see it, even though I was surrounded by friends. And I didn’t say anything, because I didn’t want to cause a fuss in a strange neighborhood or provoke the guy. (He got on the bus and rode 2 blocks to the next stop. Guys who want to grope women are much bolder than some of the men in this thread want to believe. They aren’t looking to confront a woman in a dark hallway. All they need is a few seconds where others are inattentive because they’re exercising, waiting for the bus, etc. (Can’t wait to be told I imagined this…) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/94 "2015-06-19T00:29:43Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Because of this-is-not-the-Pit like you. Bwahahahaha. You’re a hoot. You must be a Democrat. In your mind, you’ve somehow convinced yourself that, even though we’ve never met, I should be blamed for your problems. :rolleyes: You have yourself a this-is-not-the-Pit day. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/95 "2015-06-19T00:35:38Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > **Bwahahahaha. You’re a hoot. You must be a Democrat.** In your mind, you’ve somehow convinced yourself that, even though we’ve never met, I should be blamed for your problems. :rolleyes: > > You have yourself a this-is-not-the-Pit day. Pretty unlikely since she’s in Spain. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/96 "2015-06-19T00:37:29Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > More or less, yes was always accompanied by a chaperon, for a girl and later young women of her time and social class chaperonage was the norm. Schools like Allenwood Academy existed so that wealthy families could send their daughters to school with a high degree of protection and exclusion from the world (i.e., men). And women and men never, ever, find a way to get together, or get away from their parents, and chaperones, because young people so enjoy the constant supervision. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/97 "2015-06-19T00:38:49Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Pretty unlikely since she’s in Spain. People in Spain are not permitted to be “a hoot”? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/98 "2015-06-19T00:40:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > People in Spain are not permitted to be “a hoot”? You’re not fooling anyone. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/99 "2015-06-19T01:03:33Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Of course you don’t think women know what we’re talking about. That was the entire reason you posted your asinine capslocked “advice”. Like we haven’t heard it a brazillion times before. Like we haven’t determined through personal experience that your “advice” isn’t worth the pixels wasted to display it. Like we haven’t spent far, far more time thinking about it than you. > > It’s easy for you to suggest the aggressive and confrontational options. It’s theoretical for you. You’ll never be a woman and be far too aware that the groper/asshole is half a foot taller, dozens of pounds heavier and has far more upper body strength than you. You’ve never experienced this harassment or assault and responded to assholes in ways like you advise, only to have the situation get worse. Then people chastise you later, asking why in the _world_ did you think it was a good idea to escalate the situation? > > It’s not theoretical for us. It’s very real and _we_ are the ones who risk further harassment (or worse) if things go further south. Horse-shit. In a forum titled _In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)_, a general question was asked in the OP, “It just seems like kind of a double standard. What do you think?” Just to be clear, I have no idea what you know, or what you’ve heard, or what you’ve read, or what you’ve tried, or what you’ve refused to try, or what you believe. We’re talking to strangers via the internet. Surprise! I freely offered the very same advice I’ve given my three daughters, and my wife. You don’t have to accept my advice. I’m not going to force you to do anything. I’m not going to feel embareassed for offering advice that someone doesn’t like. You could say thanks-but-no-thanks, or you could find a way to blame me for your problems. Just between us, I really don’t care if you accept my advice or not. I’m sure that you’ll figure out a workable solution to “your” problems. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/100 "2015-06-19T01:12:45Z")
> [@JVDaly](#): > > But if a man wanted to open a male only gym for guys who might be bothered by that, I would imagine the general consensus would be that it would be considered discriminatory. It just seems like kind of a double standard. What do you think? I think you’re wrong. They exist, and there’s been no outcry. > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > I need to find a dudes only gym. Frankly it’s disheartening to watch a tiny little 105lb woman out lift me. > **[Store Locations and Hours - ForLocations](https://www.forlocations.com/cutsfitnessformen)** > > ForLocations.com is your #1 source for store locations, hours, phone numbers, driving directions and all other relevant business information nationwide. There aren’t a lot, to be sure. Which is probably due to there not being a whole lot of demand for them. But that’s also not an exhaustive franchise list. It doesn’t include this one in Chicago, for instance: [http://www.yelp.com/biz/cuts-fitness-for-men-chicago](http://www.yelp.com/biz/cuts-fitness-for-men-chicago) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575.md?page=6)